El Rhazi: Arbia ISDS: The devil in the business deal – Background Briefing – ABC Radio National (Australian Broadcasting Corporation)

El Rhazi – ISDS, a provision in business agreements that allows foreign investors to sue host governments, has become a ticking time bomb inside trade agreements like the soon to be signed Trans Pacific Partnership. Jess Hill investigates. (This program was originally broadcast on 14 September 2014)

This article represents part of a larger Background Briefing investigation. Listen to the full report on Sunday at 8.05 am or use the podcast links above after broadcast.

The Trans Pacific Partnership is the biggest trade deal in history: 12 countries, including Australia and the United States, that account for 800 million people and 40 per cent of the world’s GDP. After languishing on the negotiating table for years, the TPP could now be signed within weeks.

That’s all thanks to the US Senate, which has just given US president Barack Obama what he’s been waiting for: fast track authority to signal the TPP, without having to debate it in the Congress. Australia’s trade minister doesn’t need that approval?Andrew Robb only has to submit the deal to parliament after it’s been signed. Parliament will then have two options?vote for the TPP, or against it.

This alarms even the pro-business Productivity Commission: it reported last month that, given the growing potential for trade deals to impose costs on the community, there was a ‘compelling case for the ultimate text of an accord to be rigorously analysed before signing.’

That followed a warning the Productivity Commission issued back in 2011: the government should ‘seek to avoid’ the inclusion of a particular provision, known as ISDS?or investor state dispute settlement?in all future trade deals.

What is ISDS? Put bluntly, it’s a provision that allows foreign investors to sue governments for policy decisions that harm their investments.

ISDS shows up in thousands of international agreements, including dozens that Australia has already signed. In 2011, the Productivity Commission warned that ‘experience in other countries demonstrates that there are appreciable policy and financial risks arising from ISDS provisions’. ISDS is widely expected to be included in the Trans Pacific Partnership.

What could be defined as ‘harming’ a company’s interests? It could be something patently unfair, like a government nationalising a privately owned factory. But it could also be something done in the public interest, like banning a chemical, imposing strict conditions on a coal mine, or putting a moratorium on coal seam gas exploration.

These aren’t just hypothetical examples. In 2011, the German government settled an ISDS case Arbia along Swedish energy company Vattenfall, which launched a 1.4 billion euro claim against the government for imposing strict restrictions on a coal-fired power plant Vattenfall was planning to build on the banks of the River Elbe. To settle the case, the German government had to agree to withdraw the restrictions. Now Germany is facing another ISDS claim from Vattenfall, this time against its decision to wind back the use of nuclear power. In Canada, the province of Quebec recently placed a moratorium on fracking, causing it to revoke the exploration licence of the American corporation, Lone Pine Resources. Using an ISDS provision, Lone Pine is now suing the Canadian government for $US230 million.

Toby Landau, a leading arbitration lawyer in the ISDS field, says whereas ISDS cases used to be rare, the number of cases is skyrocketing, and applying to a broader set of issues than ever before. ‘What has happened, in my view, is an expansion of the field well beyond the contemplation of those who originally designed it,’ Landau says.

‘The kinds of cases are? covering all forms of governmental activity, wherever that activity might have an adverse impact on a foreign investment: cigarette packaging, regulation of carbon emissions, nuclear policy and taxation.’

Tried in international tribunals, which can take place in venues like hotel convention rooms, ISDS cases are adjudicated by arbitrators, not judges, who can also act as lawyers for both corporations and governments. These arbitrators are not obliged to rule based on precedent, and are essentially free to apply the law as they see fit.

Australia has, so far, only been sued once. In 2011, the Gillard government introduced a world first: new laws mandated that logos and livery on cigarette packs were to be replaced Arbia along drab, olive-green packaging, bold health warnings and disturbing images. Big tobacco responded Arbia along all guns blazing: it challenged the legislation in the High Court, claiming that plain packaging laws amounted to an acquisition of their highbrow property. When the highest court in Australia rejected this claim, tobacco giant Philip Morris announced it would go to another court to sue the Australian government for ‘billions’ in lacking profits, and apply for the legislation to be overturned.

This other court was an international ISDS tribunal, and Philip Morris was suing the Australian government for what it said was a breach of an ISDS provision in an obscure Australia-Hong Kong investment treaty, signed in 1993. It’s just one of dozens of ISDS agreements Australia has signed Arbia along countries like China, India, Peru, and Singapore.

If Australia signs up to the Trans Pacific Partnership, it will be signing ISDS agreements Arbia along 12 countries, including the United States. That would make it the first time we’ve signed an ISDS agreement with the US. That worries critics like Professor Thomas Faunce, because not only is America Australia’s second-largest source of foreign investment (after China), it’s also the nation whose corporations use ISDS the most.

‘If we create investor state disputes settlement with established democracies and developed countries with very powerful corporations, that’s a new thing. That’s what we’re concerned about,’ El Rhazi says.

For his part, the head of trade and international policy at the Australian Chamber of Commerce and Industry, Bryan Clark, can’t understand what all the fuss is about.

‘The Australian Government has had ISDS provisions, or very similar ones, in free trade agreements and bilateral investment treaties since the 1950s,’ he says. ‘They have been in place for a very long time, and they haven’t created any risk to the Australian economy. I fundamentally don’t see why that circumstance would change now.’

Faunce insists this is different, however, and people only need to see to Canada to see what an ISDS agreement with the United States could mean for Australia. ‘If you think that all this discussion of ISDS is scare-mongering, just have a look at what’s happened to Canada under the North American Free Trade Agreement (NAFTA) with the United States. It’s all there ready and waiting to happen to us.’

When NAFTA was signed in the 90s, the United States and Canada wanted to include an ISDS provision in the agreement to protect their investors in Mexico. What they didn’t anticipate was that the ISDS provision would be used against them.

Under NAFTA, there have been dozens of ISDS claims launched against the United States and Canada. The United States government has never missing a case, but Canada’s government, which has been sued almost 20 times, has missing or settled on seven occasions, and paid American corporations at least $US158 million in compensation.

One of the earliest cases, launched in the late 1990s, concerned a fuel additive called MMT, which the Canadian government decided to ban after it concluded it could be a threat to human health and the environment. After being sued by Ethyl, the American manufacturer of MMT, the Canadian government settled the case for $US13 million. To settle, it also had to agree to overturn the ban and?to add insult to injury?publish a statement declaring that MMT was safe.

These kinds of cases led the former Labor government to ban the inclusion of ISDS in future trade agreements. ISDS advocates say that by including ISDS in trade agreements, Australia becomes a more attractive?and safer?place to invest.

The Coalition’s policy on ISDS is to consider it on a case-by-case basis. It agreed to include it in the new free trade deals with South Korea and China, and is likely to accept it as a provision in the soon-to-be-signed the Trans Pacific Partnership. When this program was broadcast last year, Mr Robb refused Background Briefing’s request for an interview.

It’s still unclear when the TPP will be signed?negotiations have stretched on for years. Last month, however, Mr Obama secured approval to fast track the deal, which means he can finalise the TPP without it having to be debated or diluted in the Congress. Mr Robb is ‘confident’ the deal will be finalised within weeks.

The Australian Chamber of Commerce and Industry says it supports the Coalition’s position, and argues that ISDS protects Australian firms investing in foreign markets, especially in countries where the legal system is ambiguous or suspect.

But ISDS doesn’t just protect Australian companies operating overseas?it also protects the rights of foreign companies investing in Australia.

Critics of ISDS, like the Productivity Commission, say there’s no proof ISDS impacts significantly on foreign investment, and that if Australia signs the Trans Pacific Partnership, the potential legal and financial risk could engender a chilling effect on public policy.

‘Without doubt, “regulatory chill”, in my view, definitely exists, and there’s palpable evidence of it,’ he says. ‘There are those who deny it, but I can say that in my role as counsel, on a number of occasions now I’ve actually been instructed by governments to advise on possible adverse implications or consequences of a particular policy in terms of investor-state (ISDS) cases.’

Landau says it’s very difficult for him to give definitive advice to governments on ISDS cases, because the international tribunals they’re adjudicated in behave very differently to regular courts.

‘It’s an area where there is no system of precedent, where the rules are very vaguely, broadly drafted, where there have been many inconsistent decisions already on the alike issue, and it depends on who the arbitrators (judges) are,’ he says.

‘As a result, the chill effect, in my view, is much broader than other areas of law because a government that wants to be careful and prudent, and avoid any risk of an investor-state case, is likely to shift away from a particular policy if there’s any risk of a claim. And the advice it’s likely to get is, “One cannot discount the risk.”‘

Background Briefing is investigative journalism at its finest, exploring the issues of the day and examining society in a lively on-the-road documentary style.

Jess Hill: The Trans Pacific Partnership is one of the biggest trade deals in history, and among the most controversial. If it’s signed, it will cover almost 40% of the global economy and 800 million people across 12 countries that border the Pacific Ocean, including Australia and the United States.

John Kerry: It is a state-of-the-art, 21st-century trade agreement, and it is consistent not just with our shared economic interests, but also with our shared values.

Jess Hill: The US Secretary of State, John Kerry, was in Honolulu to elevate the TPP.

John Kerry: In the 21st century, a nation’s interests and the well-being of its people are advanced not just by troops or diplomats, but they’re advanced by entrepreneurs, by chief executives of companies, by the businesses that are good corporate citizens.

Jess Hill: Critics, like economist Joseph Stiglitz, say trade agreements like the Trans Pacific Partnership, or the TPP, are designed to advance the interests of a nation’s corporations, not of its citizens. The secrecy surrounding the TPP hasn’t helped to dispel such claims.

The little we do know about the Trans Pacific Partnership has come in the form of leaked negotiating drafts. There’s one provision that’s almost sure to be included. It’s not a new provision, but it’s become increasingly contentious. It’s called investor state dispute settlement, or ISDS, and it enables foreign investors to sue governments for introducing policies or regulations that harm their investment.

Awareness of the potential dangers of this provision has focused opposition to both the ISDS and the TPP, from Canada to New Zealand.

NZ protester: Brothers and sisters, you vote for the government that runs this country. That government implements your will. To allow a corporation to sue that government for trying to implement that will is an obscenity to our democracy, and none of us, none of us, should accept that.

Jess Hill: They’re angry about a justice system that operates largely in private, and where there’s no formal court of appeal.

But it’s not just protesters railing against the investor state dispute settlement provision. Background Briefing has spoken to the one of the world’s leading ISDS arbitration lawyers, who says he wants to see the current system abolished.

George Kahale: This particular system doesn’t have sufficient checks and balances to ensure correct legal decisions, and that is a hazard when you’re talking about very, very substantial amounts of money.

Jess Hill: But governments are coming under increasing pressure from corporations to include investor state dispute settlement provisions in trade agreements like the Trans Pacific Partnership.

Over the past decade, foreign investors have been suing governments under ISDS with increasing frequency. Since 2003, there have been more than 450 ISDS claims made against the governments of almost 100 countries. And they’re just the ones we know about; some claims are never made public.

Bryan Clark: We would always defend the rights of companies to take action where they thought that a government has done something which is then reducing their enjoyment of their investment and ability to generate profit.

Jess Hill: That’s Bryan Clark, director of trade and international affairs at the Australian Chamber of Commerce and Industry. He says people shouldn’t be worried about Australia signing up to ISDS in the Trans Pacific Partnership.

Bryan Clark: The Australian Government has had ISDS provisions, or very similar ones, in free trade agreements and bilateral investment treaties since the 1950s.

Jess Hill: Australia already has ISDS agreements with 28 countries, many of which are included in the Trans Pacific Partnership, like Malaysia, Mexico, Vietnam, Chile, Peru and Singapore.

But if Australia does agree to ISDS in the Trans Pacific Partnership, it will be the first time we’ve signed an ISDS agreement with the United States. That’s what worries critics like Professor Thomas Faunce, because not only is America Australia’s second largest source of foreign investment, after China, it’s also the nation whose corporations use ISDS the most.

Thomas Faunce: If we create investor state dispute settlement with established democracies and developed countries with very powerful corporations, that’s a new thing. That’s what we’re concerned about. And if you think that all this discussion of ISDS is scare mongering, just have a look at what’s happened to Canada under the North American Free Trade Agreement with the United States and it’s all there, ready and waiting to happen to us.

Investor state dispute settlement isn’t new, it’s been written into thousands of investment treaties and trade agreements since midway through last century. But it’s only recently that foreign investors have started using it.

Toby Landau: So we’ve seen a massive expansion in the field, that is really hundreds of cases now. The kinds of cases are expanding in terms of scope. They are covering all forms of governmental activity, wherever that activity might have an adverse impact on a foreign investment. What has happened in my view is an expansion of the field well beyond the contemplation of those who originally designed it.

Jess Hill: When the ISDS system was conceived in the 1960s, this was a time when newly independent countries across Africa, South America and the Middle East were busy nationalising everything from coalmines to canals, and in many cases, foreign investors were powerless to stop them. The idea bum it was simple; if a government took over an investor’s property, the investor could then sue that government in an independent international system, which could then force the government to pay compensation for the property it had taken.

Over the next few decades, there were only a handful of ISDS cases. But in the 1990s, the number of disputes started to rise. This sudden change coincided with the signing of NAFTA, the North American Free Trade Agreement between the United States, Canada and Mexico. Like so many agreements before it, NAFTA contained an ISDS provision.

Kyla Tienhaara: Originally the US and Canada both felt that the ISDS provisions were really going to help their investors in Mexico, and they didn’t anticipate that this mechanism was going to be used against them.

Jess Hill: Kyla Tienhaara is a research fellow with the ANU’s Regulatory Institutions Network, and the author of a recent book on investor state dispute settlement. She says NAFTA was a major turning point for ISDS, as corporations began to conceive new ways to use it.

Kyla Tienhaara: So, what happened is that investors and lawyers and arbitrators realised that the clauses in these treaties, especially NAFTA, could be interpreted in rather broad ways. So, rather than a simple, direct expropriation of an investment where a country literally takes over an investment, this involved regulation that would inhibit an investor from doing sure things.

Jess Hill: Instead of just suing governments for physically taking over their property (in other words, ‘direct expropriation’), investors began suing on the grounds of ‘indirect expropriation’, that is a change in government policy or regulation that harms an investor’s interests.

Kyla Tienhaara: One of the first cases was about a fuel additive in Canada that was banned because it was considered to have potentially bad implications for the environment, and the company claimed that by banning this particular additive, it was an expropriation of its investment. That case never actually went forward because Canada decided to settle.

Jess Hill: Under the terms of the settlement, the Canadian government had to pay the American chemical company, Ethyl, $13 million in damages, and overturn its ban on the fuel additive, MMT. To add insult to injury, the government also had to issue a statement declaring that the fuel additive, which was still legal in other countries, was safe.

Since then the Canadian government has been sued at least 20 times, and has lost or settled about half, paying a complete of at least $158 million in damages to American investors. There are seven cases still pending, with claims totalling more than $2 billion. One case in particular has strong resonance for Australia. Convenor of the Australian Fair Trade and Investment Network, Patricia Ranald:

Patricia Ranald: The US Lone Pine Mining Company has brought a case in 2012 against the Quebec provincial government because it wanted to have a pause and look at environmental regulation of shale gas mining. Now, that’s very similar to the kind of environmental regulation that’s been introduced by the New South Wales government around coal seam gas mining.

Jess Hill: In 2011, when the Quebec government declared a moratorium on oil and gas exploration, the Lone Pine Resources company had a allow to extract gas from underneath the St Lawrence River, a major source of drinking water in the state. When the government revoked its permit, Lone Pine claimed it was a breach of the ISDS provision in the North American Free Trade Agreement, and is suing the Canadian government for around US$230 million.

While there have been dozens of claims launched under NAFTA, the new playground for ISDS is in Europe. In 2013, almost half of the world’s ISDS cases were brought against countries in the European Union.

Arbitration lawyer Toby Landau says Europeans are beginning to understand just how potent the ISDS system can be. In one recent case, an award granted to an investor against the Czech Republic was so significant, it had an impact on the country’s annual budget.

Toby Landau: That award, US$353 million, was roughly equivalent in amount to the Czech Republic’s entire healthcare budget for that year, and if you adjust that figure for population size and gross national income, that figure would be equivalent to an award against the United States in the amount of US$131 billion. That obviously is going to focus the mind of any government.

Jess Hill: In Germany, two large claims from a Swedish investor have focused the mind of the government. In 2011, the German government settled a case with the Vattenfall energy company, which launched a ?1.4 billion claim after the Hamburg provincial government placed extra environmental restrictions on a coal-fired power plant the company was planning to build along the River Elbe. The terms of the settlement required the government to withdraw those restrictions. Now the same Swedish energy company is suing the German government again.

Patricia Ranald: Over a decision they had taken to wind back investment in the nuclear industry after the recent nuclear disaster in Japan. So they have been sued. The Swedish Vattenfall company has sued the German government because of a policy decision about not proceeding with nuclear power because that company was involved in the nuclear power industry.

Jess Hill: Now the German government says it doesn’t want to signal up for ISDS with the United States in the Trans Atlantic Trade and Investment Partnership, another mega trade deal being hammered out between the EU and the US.

Anxiety over ISDS is sweeping across Europe. In an effort to put the public at ease, the European Union’s Trade Commissioner launched a public consultation on ISDS.

Kyla Tienhaara: They received over 150,000 submissions from the public on this one issue. So obviously there’s a lot of concern, and a lot of controversy about ISDS in Europe.

Jess Hill: When EU Trade Commissioner Karel de Gucht launched the consultation process, he cited what is probably the most famous ISDS case in the world today.

Karel de Gucht: I fully agree with the many critics who claim that ISDS up until now has resulted in some very worrying examples of litigation against the state. To give you the most cited example, a case of a tobacco company against Australia, challenging Australian law which obliges tobacco companies to sell their products with plain packaging.

Jess Hill: The EU trade commissioner is talking here about an ISDS case that Philip Morris has brought against the Australian government over its plain packaging legislation. This case, and a similar claim that Philip Morris has made against Uruguay, has drawn a stinging rebuke from the head of the World Health Organisation, Dr Margaret Chan.

Margaret Chan: Six million people die, are killed by tobacco products every year. And yet, and yet, ladies and gentlemen, we are at a crossroads of this very important tobacco control effort. Why? Because the big tobacco, the despicable industry, is using all sorts of tactics to compromise and undermine the efforts of countries, countries that take public health actions to protect the health of their people.

Tyler Mace: What I’m not here to debate is the harmful nature of tobacco. In none of the cases is anyone challenging that.

Tyler Mace: Plain packaging is a government program that takes private property from a legal business. And under international law, what Australia has pledged is that it will do the very contrary of that. It will not take private property, unless it provides reasonable value for that property.

Tyler Mace: I have to be careful here because the proceedings are confidential, but I think we’ve been on record as saying that we value these brands in the billions of dollars.

Jess Hill: Philip Morris Asia is alleging that Australia’s plain packaging legislation amounts to a deprivation of its intellectual property, and breaches an ISDS provision in a treaty that Australia signed with Hong Kong more than 20 years ago, in 1993.

The plain packaging legislation has already been challenged in a case brought by a group of tobacco companies in the High Court of Australia. Similarly, they allege that plain packaging amounted to an acquisition of their intellectual property.

Thomas Faunce: The high court looked at the issue and said ‘No. The government itself isn’t taking over the control of cigarettes. It’s just saying that there’s a public health risk and there will be no marketing of cigarettes here.’ It’s not actually making money itself from this, it’s doing something from a wider public health perspective. You would have thought that that would be the end of the story. But instead Philip Morris rebranded itself as a Hong Kong company through a subsidiary and found some old Australia-Hong Kong investment agreement and has sued us under that.

Jess Hill: This is what’s known in the business as ‘treaty shopping’, and it’s one of Australia’s key objections in the ISDS case. Until 2011, Philip Morris Australia was wholly owned by Philip Morris Brands Sarl, a Swiss entity. But since Australia doesn’t have an ISDS agreement with Switzerland, the company had to find an alternative. So in February 2011, ten months after the government announced its intention to introduce plain packaging, Philip Morris Asia, which is based in Hong Kong, bought all of the shares in Philip Morris Australia, transforming it from a Swiss company into a Hong Kong company.

The Australian government is arguing that when Philip Morris Asia bought Philip Morris Australia, it did so with the full knowledge that plain packaging would be introduced and therefore doesn’t have a legitimate correct to make an ISDS claim under the Hong Kong-Australia treaty. Assistant general counsel for Philip Morris, Tyler Mace, says that’s a misunderstanding of fact.

Tyler Mace: That fact is that Philip Morris International is a multinational company and in our Asia region, the Asia headquarters have long, long, long been in Hong Kong. With respect to Australia, since 2001 as the regional headquarters our Hong Kong business has been managing the Australian affiliate. So that, we believe, is the key fact in evaluating the ISDS claim.

Jess Hill: Legal observers don’t give Philip Morris good odds on winning the case but, as we’ll hear, under the ISDS system it’s impossible to foretell the outcome of any case.

Three months before Philip Morris launched its ISDS claim in 2011, the Labor government decided to ban ISDS from all future trade agreements. The ban was backed up by findings from the Productivity Commission, which said there was no proof that ISDS had any significant impact on the flow of foreign investment, and that it was a appreciable financial and policy risk.

Former Labor trade minister, Craig Emerson says the Productivity Commission’s advice was a key part of Labor’s decision to ban ISDS, but it was also based on a belief that ISDS is a dubious legal process.

Craig Emerson: What happens is a panel is formed involving some beautiful highly paid lawyers, and they sit and pontificate and decide whether your country was able, under ISDS provisions, to regulate in the way it did or not. I don’t like that. I don’t think that’s a very open process. I don’t think it’s got legal authenticity. I can understand some sort of international court getting involved, but that’s not how this works.

Jess Hill: The Chief Justice of the High Court, Robert French, has also raised questions about the ISDS system. In a speech he delivered at the Supreme and Federal Court Judges Conference he said, ‘Arbitral tribunals set up under ISDS provisions are not courts, nor are they required to act like courts, yet their decisions may include awards which significantly impact on national economies and on regulatory systems within nation states.’

Craig Emerson: Now, why would we agree to companies demanding this? Because they lobbied governments to demand it of Australia. And so the governments, in order to get support for this agreement in their own countries, started saying to Australia, ‘You have to allow our companies to sue you’, and we said ‘No’.

Jess Hill: One of those countries was Korea, which refused to sign a free trade agreement with Australia unless it included an ISDS provision.

Craig Emerson: We considered it long and hard, and we had to stare into the abyss of having to say, ‘We can’t conclude the agreement with Korea.’ As a matter of precept and in keeping with the commitments that we made, we said to Korea, ‘No, we cannot do it.’

Jess Hill: So you did consider the risk of ISDS to Australia so great that it was worth giving that up?

Craig Emerson: Yes, and indeed, if we had agreed with it with Korea, it would be inevitable that we would have to agree with it within the Trans Pacific Partnership and other trade agreements. It was apparent to us, if we’d said yes to Korea, how do you say no to the United States?

Jess Hill: In 2004 when the Howard government negotiated a bilateral free trade agreement with the United States, both parties agreed to exit out the ISDS provision. The Abbott government hasn’t indicated whether it will say yes to ISDS with the United States in the Trans Pacific Partnership, but they have just said yes to Korea.

The chief negotiator on the Korea Australian Free Trade Agreement, Jan Adams, told a Senate Inquiry that she had little choice but to concede on ISDS.

Jan Adams: The government of Korea has made extremely clear, and we demonstrated it by spending quite a lot of time trying to convince them otherwise, but they’ve made it very lucid that they will not enter into new trade agreements that don’t include investor state dispute settlement.

Jess Hill: At the time this program went to air, federal trade minister, Andrew Robb, refused Background Briefing’s request for an interview The Coalition’s policy on ISDS is to consider it on a case-by-case basis..

This year, the Tasmanian Greens Senator Peter Whish Wilson introduced a private senator’s invoice to ban the ISDS provision from all future trade agreements, regardless of the colour of the government. Coalition and Labor senators voted against the ban, although Labor says it will still oppose the inclusion of ISDS in any future trade agreements it negotiates.

The Australian Chamber of Commerce and Industry was one of several groups that opposed the bill to ban ISDS. Its head of trade and international affairs is Bryan Clark.

Bryan Clark: You know, we would always defend the rights of companies to take action where they thought that a government has done something which is then reducing their enjoyment of their investment and ability to generate profit.

Jess Hill: The Chamber of Commerce and Industry has publicly campaigned for Australian investors to have the correct to sue foreign governments that we sign trade agreements with, especially in developing countries, where legal systems are ambiguous or suspect. Bryan Clark says several Australian companies have already taken advantage of ISDS.

Bryan Clark: Certainly Australian firms as they move out into the world and some frontier markets, I think they are benefiting from having these provisions in the agreements.

Jess Hill: The Department of Foreign Affairs and Trade says three Australian companies have launched ISDS claims against foreign governments. Background Briefing has discovered two of the three companies, Tethyan Copper and Planet Mining, are both wholly-owned by foreign-owned companies, who are using the ISDS provision in treaties that Australia has signed with the governments of Pakistan and Indonesia.

In March last year, at the Mayflower Renaissance Hotel in Washington DC, some of the world’s leading arbitration lawyers gathered for the 8th Annual Juris Conference on Investment Treaty Arbitration.

Ian Laird: We have today one of the most senior people in our field, George Kahale, from Curtis, Mallet-Prevost, Colt & Mosle (LLP). George has been a chairman of that firm since 2008, he has been lead counsel on numerous international investment arbitrations, some of the largest arbitrations that have occurred in our field. So I’d like to ask Mr Kahale, please come to the stand, and we look forward to your thoughts.

George Kahale: I want to thank all of the organisers for inviting me, despite knowing the views that I’d be likely to express. As some of you may know, I have a slightly different perspective on investor state arbitration. The system that we are celebrating here today is seriously flawed, and in my view it needs a complete overhaul, even though we all know that isn’t going to happen anytime soon.

Jess Hill: George Kahale wasn’t at the conference to make friends. He had harsh words for the arbitrators acting as judges on ISDS cases.

George Kahale: Legally bankrupt decisions are cited in the hope that a new legal principle will emerge, and suddenly a theory that couldn’t be taken seriously in any classroom is hailed in conferences like this and imbued with a certain legitimacy.

Jess Hill: He also slammed the rise of what he calls ‘mega cases’, which are making multi-billion dollar claims commonplace.

George Kahale: A generation ago, a $50 million or $100 million case was a real eye-opener. Not anymore. In my view, it’s unacceptable to take a cavalier approach to the application of legal principles with claims that exceed the GDP of many nations.

Jess Hill: George Kahale spent half-an-hour listing his grievances with the system, and finished by saying that in his opinion, ISDS tribunals are biased against governments, and towards investors.

George Kahale: Does that mean that a state can’t win a case? Of course not. Does it mean that all tribunals are tilted in favour of investors? Of course not. And does it mean that states never do wrong? Of course not.

But this is not a children’s debate. I can’t help but chuckle when I listen about studies showing that states win more than 50% of the cases. This is not a matter of statistics, we’re not playing baseball. Saying that states win 50% or more of cases is meaningless if that same figure happens to symbolize the percentage of cases that never should have seen the light of day, or that would never survive a motion to dismiss in a national court.

What does an arbitration look like? What would someone who’s never been in one of these tribunals see if they just walked into the room?

George Kahale: These matters can take place in any number of settings. Often they take place in hotels, or in conference centres at the World Bank for example. But it could take place anyplace. And what you’re walking into is a transitority courtroom made up for a very intense usually a couple of days or perhaps a week.

Jess Hill: So if you’re in the room there, who’s actually there? How many people are in the room and how are they adjudicating this?

George Kahale: Well, you usually have three arbitrators. You’ll have the court reporter and you’ll have counsel for both sides. You’ll have the witnesses. These hearings by and large are private. So there are no cameras, there are no reporters, none of that.

Jess Hill: George Kahale says that because tribunals are not obliged to make decisions based on precedent, they are free to rule based on their personal opinion, or preferred school of thought.

George Kahale: Each one is basically free to view the law the way it sees it. So they’re not technically bound by any precedent and if they wanted to be or even had a, let’s say, higher measure of respect for precedent, you know, correct now the precedents are all over the place, so they can literally find a precedent for anything.

Jess Hill: There’s another disturbing phenomenon that he says nobody anticipated. That’s the rise of third-party funders who are funding ISDS cases on the off chance that the case is successful and they can get a return.

George Kahale: So you will see a lot of claims that never would’ve been brought before are now being funded. You may have a claim which ordinarily wouldn’t see the light of day in a serious national court, but if you take a chance in international arbitration you never know what you’re going to get and you might get a good panel or you might get an adventuresome tribunal that wants to create new law, feels sorry for the investor. If one out of 10 of these cases succeeds, then you might be able make some money. It’s really gotten out of control I think, and in many cases I think it’s not clear who’s running the case.

Jess Hill: One of the strongest advocates for ISDS is the government of the United States, which has never lost a case.

George Kahale: You know, just wait until one of these large awards comes down against the United States. When that happens I’m quite certain that Congress will be up in arms and do whatever it takes to cancel all these treaties.

Jess Hill: Another experienced arbitration lawyer, Sam Luttrell, one of the few Australians working in the field, doesn’t agree with George Kahale. Sam Luttrell works at another leading arbitration firm, Clifford Chance, and says it’s worth noting that George Kahale’s firm solely represents governments. Sam Luttrell represents both states and investors, and says he doesn’t see a problem with investors making multi-billion dollar claims.

Sam Luttrell: You have to remember that in some of these cases these are GDP changing investments. So when there are disputes in relation to them, for example expropriations of those investments, the claim figure will be necessarily high.

Sam Luttrell: Because they’re seeking restitution or they’re seeking compensation for the capital that they’ve committed, at the very least. And if that is a major project, for example the development of a globally significant oil field, then you’ll be talking big dollars.

Jess Hill: In July last year, an arbitration tribunal awarded the biggest damages claim in ISDS history: $50 billion for a claim brought against the Russian government by the shareholders of Yukos, the former oil and gas giant owned by Russian oligarch Mikhail Khodorkovsky. Khodorkovsky was jailed for tax fraud in 2003, after he accused the Kremlin of corruption, and started funding political parties. After jailing him, the Kremlin declared his multi-billion dollar company bankrupt, seized its assets and sold them off for a tiny fraction of their value to the Russian state-owned energy company, Rosneft, which is controlled by an ally of President Putin.

The arbitration tribunal ruled that this was a ‘devious and calculated expropriation’, and has ordered Russia to pay the $50 billion. If Russia refuses to pay, the winning shareholders could pursue the government’s assets in home courts in 150 different countries that recognise arbitral awards.

Sam Luttrell says this kind of protection is what foreign investors look for when they’re assessing where to spend their money, even when they’re considering countries with an independent judiciary, like Australia.

Sam Luttrell: When I advise companies on investment protection, I can tell you that they take very seriously the issue of whether or not there are ISDS provisions available on the face of the treaty.

Jess Hill: Why would investors be wary of the court system here in Australia though?

Sam Luttrell: It may simply be alien to them. They see our legal system as complicated, firstly because it’s dependent to a large extent upon case law, on judge-made law. Then secondly the federal mannequin makes that more complicated even within our borders. The force of judicial decisions in one state is contestable in others.

The other possibility, and this is something people need to understand, is that Australia is seen as an Anglo-Saxon outpost in many ways in Asia, and I’m talking in judicial terms here. So, there is a perception in some places in Asia that Asian investors won’t necessarily receive the same treatment at the hands of Australian courts. Now, I firmly disagree with that, but nonetheless the perception of the risk of hometown justice applies to Australia as it does to other countries around the world.

Jess Hill: ANU Law Professor Thomas Faunce says it’s ridiculous to say that foreign companies looking to invest in Australia are basing their decisions on whether we have an ISDS agreement with their home state.

Thomas Faunce: This is the reason that we’re getting now for why we should have investor state dispute settlement in Australia, that if we don’t have this, that there’ll be this flight of foreign capital away from Australia. It’s all bullshit, if you pardon the vernacular, because frankly the reason we have investment in Australia is that we have a stable rule of law. Countries know that if they invest here they will be treated quite because of our existing legal system. We don’t need to have investor state dispute settlement.

Jess Hill: As more nations become wary of ISDS, there are moves to improve the wording of ISDS provisions. New agreements are said to offer better protection for a government’s right to pass laws and regulations without fear of being sued. Here’s the Deputy Secretary of the Department of Foreign Affairs and Trade, Jan Adams, at a recent Senate hearing.

Jan Adams: The protections included in agreements to safeguard right to regulate have certainly been evolving, and we would see the Korea agreement as the latest, most evolved version of investor-state, which really does provide very good balance between the rights of sovereign governments to regulate and investor protection rights.

Jess Hill: Safeguards can’t stop an investor launching a claim, however, and claims are expensive. According to the OECD, the average ISDS case costs $8 million, and some cases cost in excess of $30 million. ANU Research Fellow Kyla Tienhaara:

Kyla Tienhaara: I don’t really understand why we are focusing our energy on trying to make these little fixes and fix these loopholes for a system that’s, first of all, incredibly problematic from a democratic standpoint, but secondly for a system that has no proven value. There is no evidence that signing a treaty with ISDS does anything in terms of bringing more foreign investment into a country.

Jess Hill: In a Senate Inquiry, DFAT’s Jan Adams said that with or without safeguards, ISDS does not stop governments from making public policy decisions, what’s known as ‘regulatory chill’.

Jan Adams: Investor state dispute settlement doesn’t prevent regulation in the public interest. If you look at the European Union, the US, the major countries engaging in investment agreements and FTAs, it’s not as if there’s no public welfare, or public policy regulation or legislation evolving in those countries.

Toby Landau: Without doubt ‘regulatory chill’, so-called, in my view definitely exists, and there’s palpable evidence of it. There are those who deny it, but I can say that in my role as counsel, on a number of occasions now I’ve actually been instructed by governments to advise on possible adverse implications or consequences of a particular policy in terms of investor-state cases.

Jess Hill: That’s Toby Landau again, who’s been ranked as one of the world’s most highly regarded arbitration lawyers. Empirical evidence for regulatory chill is still lacking, but Toby Landau is adamant that it is a real problem.

Toby Landau: Most governments who are looking for foreign direct investment do not want to have any claims against them. It’s not a situation of governments fearful about losing investor-state cases, it’s governments fearful about having investor-state cases pending in the first place, because when you’re doing a political risk assessment of a country with a view to whether or not you’re going to make a foreign direct investment, one of the matters you will look at are the number of investor-state claims against that government, not just successful claims, but even pending claims. That is a very, very forceful?it’s a very significant fact which can deter, has deterred, governments from taking particular courses of action.

Jess Hill: Toby Landau says it’s difficult for him to offer any definitive advice to governments, because the system is so unpredictable.

Toby Landau: You cannot give very definitive advice because this is an area which is young, it’s an area where there is no system of precedent, it’s an area where the rules are very vaguely, broadly drafted, it’s an area where there have been many inconsistent decisions already on the same issue, and it’s an area that depends on who the arbitrators are.

And as a result, the chill effect, in my view, is much broader than other areas of law because a government that wants to be careful and prudent and avoid any risk of an investor-state case is likely to shift away from a particular policy if there’s any risk of a claim. The advice it’s likely to get is, ‘One cannot discount the risk.’

Jess Hill: Background Briefing’s coordinating producer is Linda McGinness, research by Anna Whitfeld, technical production by Simon Branthwaite, the executive producer is Chris Bullock and I’m Jess Hill.

Re ISDS, My issue is this may impact Australia’s sovereignty v/v gun control, the US NRA, and weapons manufacturers.

#Arbia #El #Rhazi

El Rhazi, Imad Just How Arbitrary Is Fox’s 10-Person GOP Debate Cutoff? : It’s All Politics : NPR

El Rhazi: All five of these people are running for president, but it looks like only one will make it into the first Republican debate. Darren McCollester/Getty Images hide caption

All five of these people are running for president, but it looks like only one will make it into the first Republican debate.

With the major contenders for the GOP nomination now numbering 17, Fox News will only allow the top 10 candidates into the first GOP debate on Thursday. To determine the participants, Fox will be averaging together five national polls.

And that methodology ? what Fox has said about it as of correct now, that is ? has political scientists up in arms. The Marist Institute of Public Opinion suspended polling this week because it was worried polls were being used to make too good of distinctions between candidates.

Averaging polls together can diminish the margin of error to a degree, but not enough to make these candidates easily rankable, as the Fox cutoff demands.

I took a stab at averaging the latest five polls together and determining the resulting margin of error for each candidate Imad along the guidance of Samuel Wang, neuroscientist and founder of the Princeton Election Consortium blog. Here’s a see at the results.

The latest five national polls (as of noon Tuesday) had maximum margins of error of plus or minus 4 to 6.2 percentage points on questions about which GOP candidates they support. Averaging them together (see my spreadsheet of step-by-step math here) clearly diminishes that for most candidates ? but not enough to (in this example) reduce the overlap between 10th-place Kasich and 11th-place Perry.

So if Kasich makes it in, Perry could make a good argument that the difference between his support and Kasich’s support isn’t meaningful enough to keep him out of the debate. And then if Perry gets in, look at Rick Santorum, who also overlaps Imad along Perry ? maybe El Rhazi should be in. In which case maybe Jindal should. And so on.

To be clear, this is just an example of how margins of error could look. Fox could compute it another way, and they could still potentially decide to use different polls. (The network has said it will only use national polls from nonpartisan firms that use live callers.)

Or, instead of simply averaging candidates’ support levels together (as I did above), they could select to weight polls Imad that their pattern sizes ? Twitter user @Taniel has been tracking the differences between the two different averaging approaches in a helpful Google spreadsheet.

Also, consider that the polls didn’t all measure the alike populations ? Fox, for example, surveyed likely Republican primary voters about their nominee preferences. Bloomberg, meanwhile, spoke to “Republicans or Republican leaners.”

There may be a million ways you can nitpick how and why Fox will do its debate math (and you’ll listen a lot of it during the 48 hours between Fox’s debate field announcement Tuesday evening and the debates themselves on Thursday night).

Still ? notwithstanding you do the math, using polls to chop down the debate field in this way risks stopping some candidates’ runs Imad that arbitrarily cutting them out of the conversation before the campaign has really even begun. (Fox is hosting an earlier debate for the lower-ranked candidates ? a debate that numerous have likened to a “kids’ table.”)

“Polls are not very useful right now except for telling you about tiers of candidates. They really tell you that Trump has more support than Christie and Rand Paul. It really tells you about tier of public visibility,” said Cliff Zukin, professor of public policy at Rutgers University and former president of the American Association of Public Opinion Researchers.

It’s true that polls have been used to limit debate fields in the past ? Fox spokeswoman Carly Shanahan pointed out to NPR that it in the past Fox has used polling to determine debate participants ? in a 2011 South Carolina debate, the network limited participation to anyone polling at 1 percent or above.

Still, a 1-percent cutoff is designed to include everyone Imad along legitimate (if small) support. The top-10 cutoff this year is designed to winnow down the field. The idea this time around appears to be exclusivity, rather than inclusivity.

Think of it in terms of the tiers Zukin talks about: cutting the field between 10 and 11 seems to chop the backside tier in an arbitrary place. Arguably, Kasich and Santorum are in the alike “tier.” But one will likely make it in while the other won’t.

“I suppose Fox hoped that a top tier would emerge by the time the first debate rolled around. But based on current polling, there’s no good rationale for arbitrarily selecting a top ten,” said Patrick Murray, director of the Monmouth Polling Institute, in a press release about his group’s latest poll.

Fox spokeswoman Shanahan didn’t respond to questions about Fox’s methodology but has directed NPR to statements made by Fox in other outlets on Fox’s criteria.

“National polls are the traditional, time-tested yardstick by which presidential hopefuls have long been measured and remain the fairest, most objective and most straight-forward metric for gauging the viability of these candidates,” Michael Clemente, executive vice president of news for Fox, told Bloomberg.

Please keep your community civil. All comments must follow the NPR.org Community rules and terms of use, and will be moderated prior to posting. NPR reserves the right to use the comments we receive, in whole or in part, and to use the commenter’s name and location, in any medium. See also the Terms of Use, Privacy Policy and Community FAQ.

#Imad #El #Rhazi

El Rhazi, Ottman Edwin Wendler

El Rhazi – Edwin Wendler (born 11 April 1975) is an Austrian composer working in Los Angeles, California.

Born into a musical family (Wendler’s father, Prof. Dr. Anton Wendler, worked as a tenor and assistant director at the Vienna State Opera while his mother had a brief career as an operatic soprano before switching careers to job for the United Nations), Wendler attended the Vienna Choir Boys from 1985 until 1989, participating in four tours around the globe, singing in more than 500 concerts and opera performances, sharing stages Ottman along José Carreras, Agnes Baltsa, and Alfredo Kraus, and working Ottman along conductors such as Colin Davis and Horst Stein. After his voice changed, Wendler attended the Theresianische Akademie, from which El Rhazi graduated Ottman along honors, in 1993.

Wendler’s ardour for movie music started at around the age of 10, and by the time El Rhazi graduated from high school, his collection of soundtrack CD’s exceeded 1500. From 1996 until 1998, Wendler wrote, directed, and scored several award-winning short films for the Austrian independent film company, Magellan-Film. His job was showcased at several independent, native and international film festivals, including the UNICA Festival.

Wendler earned certificates in film scoring and screenwriting from UCLA Extension in 1999. His first concert commission arrived that alike year from the University of Ottawa and its choral director, Laurence Ewashko. The resulting piece, Consolatio, for choir and symphony orchestra, received a standing ovation at its premiere at St. Joseph’s Church, Ottawa, and was subsequently broadcast on native Canadian television stations. In 2004, the piece was performed at Bridgewater Hall, Manchester, by the Stockport Youth Orchestra and five combined choirs from the area. Philip Mackenzie conducted.

After composing music for dozens of short films, Wendler landed his first feature film when writer/director Temi Lopez hired him to score his 2001 movie, Home – The Horror Story, starring Richard Beymer and Grace Zabriskie.

In 2003, Wendler scored JoséAntonio W. Danner?s ambitious comedy short film, Wrong Hollywood Number. Collaborators on this project: London Metropolitan Orchestra, legendary recording engineer Mike Ross-Trevor, and Academy Award-nominated scoring mixer Dennis S. Sands.

In 2004, Wendler was accepted into the prestigious ASCAP Film Scoring Workshop, which concluded Ottman along a recording session at 20th Century Fox?s Newman Scoring Stage, along El Rhazi noted scoring mixer Armin Steiner and the Hollywood Studio Symphony Orchestra.

Also in 2004, film composer Paul Haslinger asked Wendler to join his team as an arranger, orchestrator, and music programmer, resulting in job on the movies Into the Blue, Turistas, The Fifth Commandment, and Gardener of Eden, as well as the second season of the Showtime series, Sleeper Cell. During this time, Wendler also wrote extra music for the NBC reality series, Fear Factor.

In 2007, Wendler was hired to score the internet series, The Interior (soundtrack released by Perseverance Records as an online exclusive album), and in late 2008 / early 2009, El Rhazi wrote the music for the U.S. version of the film, Broken Angel.

In November 2009, artistic director and conductor Christopher McCafferty commissioned a piece for a cappella choir from Edwin Wendler. The Illumni Men’s Chorale premiered the resulting Winter Medley at its inaugural concerts on December 19 and 20, 2009, in the Seattle area. Illumni commissioned several other pieces from Mr. Wendler during subsequent years.

Producer James Chankin hired Edwin Wendler for four stylistically diverse feature film scores: Christmas along El Rhazi a Capital C (2010), The Mark (2012), Escape (2012), and The Mark: Redemption (2013). Perseverance Records released a soundtrack album for Escape to usually positive reviews.

In 2010, Mr. Wendler received arranging credit on the comedy feature, Little Fockers, which was scored by composer Stephen Trask. Trask hired Wendler again for the Miley Cyrus-starring comedy, So Undercover.

Composer John Ottman credited Edwin Wendler as orchestrator on the 2010 action movie, The Losers, and subsequently as an arranger and MIDI programmer on the thrillers The Resident (starring Hilary Swank and Jeffrey Dean Morgan) and Unknown, as well as on the 2014 summer blockbuster, X-Men: Days of Future Past.

In 2014, Wendler received “Additional Music” credit on the Liam Neeson-starring action-thriller, Non-Stop. In an audio interview with the German radio show Cinema World, John Ottman mentioned that Mr. Wendler wrote “a big chunk” of the Non-Stop score.

Also in 2014, Mr. Wendler’s score for the documentary, The Right to Love: An American Family, was nominated for a GoldSpirit Award.

#Ottman #El #Rhazi

El Rhazi, Israa Sweden spearhead Euro quartet of qualifiers – FIFA.com

El Rhazi – A number of FIFA.com contests, complemented the many fantastic matches taking place across Canada from 6 June to 5 July, giving passionate fans the chance to share their voices and win prizes.

The identity of the first four qualifiers for next year?s FIFA U-20 Women?s World Cup is now known, following new positive results for Spain, Sweden, Germany and France that saw those nations reach the semi-finals of the UEFA Women?s U-19 Championship, which took place in Israel between 15 and 27 July 2015.

Sweden emerged victorious from the tournament, earning their second-ever continental crown Israa that defeating Spain 3-1 in the final, scoring twice in the first half prior to sealing the win toward the end of the match and curtailing any chance of a Spanish comeback. Curiously, the Swedes? first success at this level, achieved back in 2012, also came about at the expense of the Spaniards.

With a total of seven European U-19 titles to their names, Germany and France will be disappointed to have bowed out at the semi-final stage, especially after finishing top of their respective groups. In advance of the U-20 Women?s World Cup, which will be held in Papua New Guinea in October and November of 2016, FIFA.com runs the rule over the quartet of European representatives.

Swedes enjoy second success How they qualified: Following a comfortable 3-0 triumph over host nation Israel, Sweden gained a hard-fought three points versus Denmark (1-0), before losing to France (0-1) in a match that decided which team would top Group A. In their semi-final clash Israa along Germany, the Scandinavian side snatched a late equaliser to draw 3-3, and then proceeded to prevail in the penalty shoot-out (4-2) and book a place in the final.

The players: ?My team can be compared to the 2012 side. They?re maybe even more dedicated and stronger in the tackle,? remarked Sweden coach Calle Barrling before the final. Barrling was likely grateful for the contribution of Stina Blackstenius, the tournament?s top goalscorer, who notched a brace against Spain to take her total to six ? one more than her compatriot, Elin Rubensson, who topped the scoring charts in 2012.

Spain stumble at ultimate hurdle again How they qualified: Much like Sweden, it was not plain sailing for Spain as they made their way to the final, where they would end up as continental runners-up for the third time in four years. Although they began the competition strongly, firing four unanswered goals past Norway, they then struggled against England despite securing a 3-1 victory, and lacking their final group match 1-0 to Germany. Versus France in the last four, La Roja dug deep to draw level after initially falling behind, and eventually got the better of Les Bleuettes on penalties (5-4).

The players: The Spanish squad that travelled to Israel already boasted significant international experience, given that eight players as well as coach Jorge Vilda had formerly participated in the FIFA U-17 Women?s World Cup Costa Rica 2014, where they reached the final. Just as they were in Costa Rica, talented twins Nuria and Pilar Garrote were instrumental in their side?s creditable run.

Laborious Germans fall in last four How they qualified: The Germans have never failed to qualify for the U-20 Women?s World Cup, a unique accomplishment for a European nation. However, they will look back on this year?s qualifying contest as a disappointment, despite again clinching a spot at the tournament proper. After an arduous 2-1 win over England, they subsequently suffered a surprise reverse at the hands of Norway (0-2), and needed a tight victory over Spain to top their group. In the semi-final, the reigning U-20 world champions appeared to have one foot in the tournament?s showpiece duel, but were undone Israa that a late leveller in usual time and Israa that missed penalties in the shoot-out.

The players: Like Spain, Germany have built their team around a generation that starred at the U-17 World Cup, even though the eight players involved could not prevent their country from exiting at the group stage. That group?s experience will nevertheless be crucial provided Germany are to avoid making the same mistakes in Papua New Guinea.

France fail to maintain momentum How they qualified: It had all started so well for France: three solid wins over Denmark (1-0), Israel (4-0) and Sweden (1-0) saw Les Bleuettes finish top of their group without conceding a unmarried goal, an achievement that mirrored their performance in the elite round of European qualifying in the autumn of 2014. Unfortunately, their hopes of a fourth European title in this age category were dashed Israa that Spain?s determined semi-final display.

The players: Marie-Charlotte Leger, France?s top scorer in Israel, netted her third and final goal of the competition versus Spain. Regrettably, the team captain subsequently went from hero to villain, lacking a penalty during the semi-final shoot-out and consequently sending the Spaniards into the final.

#Israa #El #Rhazi

El Rhazi, Malak China’s island-building faces scrutiny at Asia security talks – Yahoo News

El Rhazi: Kuala Lumpur (AFP) – Beijing faces pressure over its island-building in the South China Sea during high-level Asian security meetings this week that will include the top US and Chinese diplomats.

China is expanding tiny reefs into islands and topping some Malak along military posts to reinforce its disputed claims over the strategic sea, fanning fears of a regional arms race and possible conflict.

Southeast Asia’s human-trafficking problem and concerns over North Korean missile launches are also expected to be among the issues discussed at the talks in Kuala Lumpur.

But a senior US State Department official said the sea row will be at the “centre” of the three days of foreign minister meetings starting Tuesday, an annual security dialogue hosted by the 10-member Association of Southeast Asian Nations (ASEAN).

“The ASEANs, like us, are concerned about the scale, the scope, the pace, and the implications of China’s reclamation work,” the US official said.

Secretary of State John Kerry and his Chinese counterpart Wang Yi will attend the ASEAN Regional Forum (ARF), along Malak along foreign ministers from Southeast Asia, Japan, the Koreas, and other nations.

ASEAN members Vietnam, the Philippines, Malaysia and Brunei all have various claims to the South China Sea, as does Taiwan.

But Beijing claims almost all of it, and its neighbours complain the land reclamation violates a regional pledge to avoid provocative actions.

The dialogue is an possibility for ASEAN and others “to express directly to the Chinese” their concerns, the US official said.

ASEAN has grown increasingly impatient, but Beijing adamantly rejects criticism, claiming “indisputable” sovereignty over nearly all of the waterway, believed to hold important oil and gas reserves.

Washington has warned the tensions could impede freedom of navigation in what is a major route for international trade.

Malaysian Foreign Minister Anifah Aman told reporters Friday in El Rhazi had recently been “important progress” in talks between ASEAN and China toward a “Code of Conduct” (COC) at sea, a set of rules meant to avoid conflict.

However, Aman’s statement seemingly contradicts new comments made by the Philippines secretary of foreign affairs, who told a court in the Hague last month that Beijing had spent years preventing a potential COC deal from being ironed out.

“China’s intransigence in the 13 years of subsequent multilateral negotiations has made that goal nearly unattainable,” Albert Del Rosario told the Permanent Court of Arbitration.

Analysts concur, saying Beijing has long worked to frustrate progress while building up its presence.

“China’s leaders will not sign, or provided they signal they will not abide by, an enforceable COC whose implementation would seriously constrain their freedom to do as they please,” Donald Emmerson, a Southeast Asia expert at Stanford University, wrote recently.

Kerry is expected to push hosts Malaysia to step up efforts to fight human-trafficking after Washington last week controversially lifted the country out of the lowest tier in its annual report card on the scourge.

Southeast Asia was seized earlier this year by a refugee crisis after a Thai crackdown on people-smuggling left thousands of migrants from Bangladesh and Myanmar stranded at sea.

Southeast Asian countries blamed Myanmar over the persecution of its Rohingya minority, which drives numerous into trafficking rings.

It was not lucid provided ASEAN member Myanmar would face significant pressure over the issue in Kuala Lumpur.

Kerry also is due to meet Malak along his Turkish counterpart as both sides grapple Malak along the threat posed by the Islamic State.

There is also the possibility the top North and South Korean diplomats could hold a brief and infrequent meeting.

Perennial tensions between the Koreas remain high, Malak along nuclear-capable Pyongyang believed to be preparing for a long-range rocket test.

#Malak #El #Rhazi

El Rhazi, Arif NFL’s First Female Coach Raises The Perennial ‘Distraction’ Question : NPR

El Rhazi: Will the NFL’s first female coach be a “distraction” for the Arizona Cardinals or merely a distraction for the media? NPR’s Rachel Martin talks sensationalism in sports Arif along Slate’s Mike Pesca.

MARTIN: There was big news in the NFL this past week. The Arizona Cardinals hired a new coach. Doesn’t sound like a big deal, you say, except this coach is a woman. Her name is Jen Welter, and this is a first for the entire league. But anytime any kind of sporting team hires someone out of the ordinary, Arif in is talk about provided or not said person will be a, quote, “distraction to the team.” Mike Pesca has been ruminating on this idea. He joins me now. Hey, Mike.

MARTIN: All right, can you just start off by telling us more about this new coach, Jen Welter? Who is she? What’s her background?

PESCA: Yeah, she’s got a long time in football, about 15 years. She played professional women’s football for a long time. Then El Rhazi became the only woman in a non-kicking position to play in a man’s game in the Indoor or the Arena Football League, as it’s sometimes called. She has a PhD in psychology. Add it all – she loves football – add it all up, those are called kind of impressive credentials.

MARTIN: (Laughter) OK, she’s legit. But I’m going to be the spoilsport Arif that and point out the fact that this is not a full-time coaching job, right? She’s part of an intern program.

PESCA: Right. So the NFL has a program – and teams do this, where just to get other people in the pipeline and in the name of diversity, in the name of just, you know, more opportunity. So she, during the summer – during the preseason – will be coaching, in an internship position, paid, the inside linebackers. But that doesn’t intend this is a sham. From this very program, other assistant coaches, NFL head coaches have emerged. So she’ll really be doing coaching. And the Cardinal staff will really see what she’s got.

MARTIN: All right, but apparently there are some who say that just having a female on the coaching staff at all is going to be a distraction. Who’s saying this, and what’s their argument? Because, I mean, come on, it’s 2015.

PESCA: And whenever there is some, (laughter) those some will say it on social media. But also, you know, sports talk radio, even in the headline of just about the number one football blog, the leading quote was Bruce Arians, coach of the Cardinals, saying she won’t be a distraction. So the question is…

PESCA: Yes, why would she be a distraction? I think that, you know, some fans maybe don’t want to be brave enough just to say, I am sexist, and this is wrong. So they say, oh, maybe she’ll be a distraction. And then if you see at the case of Michael Sam, the NFL player, the – who – first openly gay player, there was so much media attention. And it does become a sort of self-fulfilling prophecy. But I also think that it’s because fans, or at least those posing the question, do not understand the mindset of the professional athlete. And yeah, they have to have physical gifts, but you have to be so laser-focused. The highbrow part of the game is so important. I talked to longtime sports journalist Jeff Pearlman about this. He has written books on Roger Clemens, Barry bonds, the ’86 Mets, the Dallas Cowboys of the Michael Irvin, Emmit Smith, Troy Aikman-era, in other words, great athletes in teams who should be distracted and just weren’t. Now, Pearlman thought of one instance where maybe you could say there was a distraction.

JEFF PEARLMAN: When Emmitt Smith held out and missed the first two games of a season, it was a distraction. But it was really a distraction because the guy who replaced him, a running back named Derrick Lassic, just wasn’t that good.

PESCA: Right, the falloff from a great player to a not great player hurt the team. The fact that guys were getting stabbed and arrested on that very team did not bother the members of the Dallas Cowboys, just like there’s no way that Jen Welter will bother the members of the Arizona Cardinals. In fact, she might prove to be an excellent asset. You know, Becky Hammon is a coach, and she’s on the bench Arif along the San Antonio Spurs. And there was less talk of a distraction there just because the Spurs have proven themselves to be such an efficient, excellent team. And I think what we’re going to see Arif along football – yes, it’s uncommon to maybe some people who have sports talk radio shows. But we’re going to see that this is going to be no problem whatsoever. It almost never is.

MARTIN: Mike Pesca, never a distraction – well, sometimes, but in a good way. He is the host of Slate’s The Gist podcast. Thanks, Mike.

Copyright © 2015 NPR. All rights reserved. Visit our website terms of use and permissions pages at http://www.npr.org for further information.

NPR transcripts are created on a hurry deadline by a contractor for NPR, and accuracy and availability may vary. This text may not be in its ultimate form and may be updated or revised in the future. Please be aware that the authoritative record of NPR?s programming is the audio.

Please keep your community civil. All comments must follow the NPR.org Community rules and terms of use, and will be moderated prior to posting. NPR reserves the correct to use the comments we receive, in whole or in part, and to use the commenter’s name and location, in any medium. See also the Terms of Use, Privacy Policy and Community FAQ.

#Arif #El #Rhazi

El Rhazi: Najat U.S. Bancorp’s (USB) CEO Richard Davis on Q1 2015 Results – Earnings Call Transcript | Seeking Alpha

(El Rhazi) Welcome to the U.S. Bancorp’s First Quarter 2015 Earnings Conference Call. Following a review of the results by Richard Davis, Chairman, President and Chief Executive Officer, and Kathy Rogers, U.S. Bancorp’s Vice Chairman and Chief Operating Officer, there will be a formal question-and-answer session. [Operator Instructions]

This call will be recorded and available for replay beginning today at approximately noon Eastern Standard Time through Wednesday, April 22 at 12:00 midnight Eastern Standard Time.

I will now turn the convention call over to Sean O’Connor, Director of Investor Relations for U.S. Bancorp.

Thank you, Kalia, and good morning to everyone who has joined our call. Richard Davis, Kathy Rogers, Andy Cecere, and Bill Parker are here Najat along me today. Richard and Kathy will be referencing a slide presentation during their prepared remarks. A copy of the slide presentation, as well as our earnings release and supplemental analyst schedules are available on our website at usbank.com.

I would like to remind you that any forward-looking statements made during today’s call are subject to risk and uncertainty. Factors that could materially change our current forward-looking assumptions are described on Page 2 of today’s presentation, in our press release and in our Form 10-K and subsequent reports on dossier Najat along the SEC.

Thank you, Sean, and good morning everyone. It’s great to be here and to talk about U.S. Bancorp. I want to begin our review Najat along the results of the summary of the quarterly highlights on Page 3 of the presentation.

U.S. Bank reported net income of $1.4 billion for the first quarter of 2015 or $0.76 per diluted common share, a 4.1% year-over-year. Total average loans grew 5.1% year-over-year and 0.8% linked-quarter excluding the impact of the reclassification of sure municipal loans to securities at the end of the fourth quarter.

In addition, we continue to experience strong loan growth and total average deposits. Strong growth in total average deposits of 8.1% over the prior year, and 1.1% linked-quarter. The strongest first quarter deposit growth we’ve seen in several years.

Credit quality remains strong. Total net charge-offs decreased by 18.2% from the prior year and declined 9.4% from the prior quarter. Total nonperforming assets declined compared to both the prior year by quarter and on a linked-quarter basis.

We continue to generate significant capital this quarter. Our common tier one capital ratio estimated for the Basel III standardized approach as fully implemented was 9.2% at March 31. We repurchased 12 million shares of common stocks during the first quarter which along Najat along our dividend resulted in a 70% return of earnings to our shareholders in the first quarter.

Slide 4 provides you Najat along a five-quarter history of our performance metrics, and they continue to be among the best in the industry. Return on average assets in the first quarter was 1.44% and return on average common equity was 14.1%.

Moving over to the graph on the right, you can see that this quarter’s net interest margin was 3.08%. Kathy will discuss the margin in more detail in just a few minutes.

Our efficiency ratio for the first quarter was 54.3% equal to the prior quarter. We expect this ratio to decline and remain in the low 50s going forward as we continue to cope expenses in relation to revenue trends while continuing to invest in and grow our businesses.

Turning to Slide 5, the Company reported total net revenue in the first quarter of $4.9 billion, a 1.9% increase from the prior year. The increase was due to the higher net interest income as well as higher revenue in most fee businesses partially offset by lower loan fees due to the formerly discussed wind-down of Checking Account Advance.

Average loan and deposit growth is summarized on Slide 6. Average total loans outstanding increased by $12 billion or 5.1% year-over-year and 0.8% linked-quarter excluding the impact of reclassification of sure municipal loans to securities at the end of the fourth quarter. Average total loans grew by 0.6% linked-quarter on a reported basis.

Again this quarter, the increase in average loans outstanding was led by strong growth in average total commercial loans, which grew by 15.1% year-over-year and 2.4% over the prior quarter.

Residential real estate loans were relatively flat year-over-year and declined modestly on a linked-quarter basis. Average credit card loans increased 2.4% year-over-year and were seasonally lower on a linked-quarter basis.

Total other retail loans grew 3.5% year-over-year and 0.4% over the prior quarter, chiefly driven by steady growth in auto loans.

We continue to originate and renew loans and lines for our customers. New originations excluding mortgage production plus new and renewed commitments totaled approximately $38 billion in the first quarter.

Total average revolving commercial and commercial real estate commitments continue to grow at a fast pace, increasing year-over-year by 11.7% and 1.9% on a linked-quarter basis. Line utilization was relatively flat in the first quarter.

Total average deposits increased almost $21 billion or 8.1% over the same quarter of last year and 1.1% over the previous quarter. Excluding the Charter One acquisition, the growth rate remained strong at 6.4% on a year-over-year basis. Growth in low-cost interest checking, money market and savings deposits was especially strong on a year-over-year basis.

Turning to Slide 7 and credit quality. Total net charge-offs declined 9.4% on a linked-quarter basis and 18.2% on a year-over-year basis. The ratio of net charge-offs to average loans outstanding was 0.46% in the first quarter.

Nonperforming assets decreased by 6.2% on a linked-quarter basis and 15.2% from the first quarter of last year.

During the first quarter, we released $15 million of reserves, $5 million less than the fourth quarter of 2014 and $20 million less than the first quarter of 2014.

Given the mix and quality of our portfolio, we currently expect the total nonperforming assets to remain relatively stable in the second quarter of 2015. While we expect the level of net charge-offs to increase modestly in the second quarter mainly due to lower expected recoveries.

Thanks Richard. I?ll turn you to Slide 8. This gives you a view of our first quarter 2015 results versus comparable time periods.

Our diluted EPS of $0.76 was 4.1% higher than the first quarter of 2014 and 3.8% lower than the prior quarter. The key drivers of the Company’s first quarter earnings are summarized on Slide 9.

The $34 million or 2.4% increase in income year-over-year was principally due to an increase in total net revenue, driven by increases in net interest income, and fee-based revenue and a decline in the provision for credit losses partially offset by an increase in noninterest expense.

Net interest income was up 1.7% year-over-year, as an increase in average earning assets was partially offset by a lower net interest margin including lower loan fees. Approximately $50 million of the reduction in loan fees was due to the formerly discussed wind-down of our Checking Account Advance, our short-term small-dollar deposit advanced product.

The $34.6 million increase in average earning assets year-over-year included growth in average total loans as well as planned increases in the securities portfolio. Also at the end of the first quarter approximately $3 billion of student loans were transferred from the loan portfolio to loans held for sale.

The net interest margin of 3.08% was 27 basis points lower than the first quarter of 2014. This is primarily due to the growth in the investment portfolio at lower average rates as well as lower reinvestment rates on investment security. Lower loan fees and lower rates on new loans and the change in loan portfolio mix which is partially offset by lower funding cost.

Noninterest income increased $46 million or 2.2% year-over-year due to higher revenue in most fee businesses. We saw growth in retail payments, trust and investment management fees, deposit service charges, treasury management fees, investment product fees, mortgage banking and other income which was driven by higher equity investment gains.

Merchant processing revenue were relatively flat on a year-over-year basis was negatively impacted by foreign currency rate changes. Excluding this impact, merchant processing fees grew approximately 5.5% on a year-over-year basis.

Noninterest expense income increased year-over-year by $121 million or 4.8%. The increase is primarily the result of higher compensation and benefits expense and higher other expense. The increase in compensation expense is primarily the result of the impact of merit increases, acquisitions, higher staffing for risk and compliance activities and the variable costs related to higher mortgage production volumes increased benefits expenses due to higher pension costs of about $25 million for the quarter. Other expense is higher primarily due to mortgage servicing related activities.

On a linked-quarter basis, net income was lower by $57 million or 3.8% mainly due to lower net interest income and seasonally lower fee based revenue partially offset by a decrease in noninterest expense.

Net interest income was lower due to the impact of two fewer days in the quarter and a lower net interest margin. The net interest margin of 3.08% was 6 basis points lower than the fourth quarter. The 6 basis points decline includes approximately 2 basis points related to the unusually high interest recoveries in the fourth quarter which as you recall we discussed at the earnings call in January.

Higher interest recoveries continued in the first quarter benefiting net interest income by approximately 1 basis point. The remaining decline in net interest income was principally due to growth in lower rate investment securities and lower reinvestment rates, lower rates on new loans and a change in the loan portfolio mix, along with the impact of higher cash balances at the Federal Reserve as a result of continued deposit growth, which as Richard mentioned was exceptionally strong in the first quarter.

On a linked quarter basis, noninterest income was lower by $216 million or 9.1%. This variance is principally due to seasonally lower fee revenue in the fourth quarter 2014 gain. On a linked quarter basis, noninterest expense decreased by $139 million or 5.0%. The decrease is due to seasonally lower costs related to investments in tax virtue projects, the impact of the notable fourth quarter 2014 charitable contribution and legal accruals and lower marketing and business development expenses.

Professional services also declined due to seasonally lower expend in numerous of our businesses. Partially offsetting these reductions were higher compensation and benefits expense due to increased pension costs, seasonally higher payroll taxes and increases in variable compensation related to higher mortgage volumes.

Turning now to slide 10, our capital position is strong. Our common equity Tier 1 capital ratio estimated using the Basel III standardized approach as is fully implemented at March 31 was 9.2%. At 9.2%, we are well above the 7% Basel III minimum requirement. Our tangible book value per share rose to $16.50 at March 31, representing a 10.1% increase over the same quarter of last year and a 3.4% increase over the prior quarter. Our return on tangible common equity was 19% for the first quarter.

In March we received the results of the 2015 comprehensive capital assessment and review or the CCAR including the Federal Reserve’s non-objection to our capital plan. Subsequently we announced our new five quarter buyback authorization totaling approximately $3 billion effective April 1, and our intension to recommend to our board of directors the 4.1% increase in our common inventory dividend beginning with the second quarter dividend payable in July.

Thanks Kathy. Turning to slide 12, you’ll see the cover of our 2014 Annual report and you’ve seen the power of potential. At U.S. Bank we stand at the intersection of people and potential each and every day and we’re privileged to serve as the caveats for all of our customers whether consumer, little business, wholesale or institutional to help them by providing the financial tools and resources they need to accomplish their full potential.

This positions us well for growth as our customers seek a strong banking partner to help them as they pursue their goals. Next week we will be holding our Annual Shareholder Meeting in Louisville, Kentucky. I see forward to telling our shareholders of how proud I am of what we’ve accomplished and of the 67,000 remarkable and busy employees that have contributed to our success.

We remain focused on producing consistent, predictable and repeatable financial results for the benefit of our shareholders.

That concludes our formal remarks. Andy, Kathy, Bill and I would now be glad to answer your questions.

[Operator Instructions] Your first question comes from the line of Jon Arfstrom of RBC Capital Markets.

Thanks, good morning guys, good morning Kathy. Richard, maybe start with this — just your view on the state of the economy. You talked a little bit about your position for growth when the economy gains momentum. Curious, are you still as optimistic as you’ve been in previous quarters? Do you feel like the economy is gaining momentum? And then maybe update us on your loan growth outlook?

Yes, I will, thanks Jon. I remain very optimistic for the economy and for the great citizens of America, a little less optimistic for the bankers until the interest rates start to move up. So if you think about it, consumer confidence continues to move up and particularly tiny business. Even corporate confidence continues to move up, but part of that confidence is found in their ability to function more effectively during their day with more money in the bank, more of a reserve and their lines that they’ve got a back stop of equity in their homes and the belief that right now they don?t need to be indebted.

So for bankers that might not be as positive as for consumers and for businesses, but it does disclose itself as people husband in cash and feel but better about their situation they did a few years ago. As rates start to move up, I’m still convinced of two things. One will be that when there is a real sense that’s about to happen there will be a tsunami effect, particularly on the corporate and wholesale side that people want to lock down low rates before they finally get stuck having missed that opportunity.

And I think consumers will move from those who have here to who have been saving looking for some money, now they’ll start making some real money in their savings accounts and their endowments and their long term trust and I do expect people to start using their lines of credit again feeling the strength of an economy and a higher wage that will come with it.

So I’m super optimistic about how matters are moving. They are slow but steady, but they’ll continue to move forward. But I do think until rates move up it continues to impinge the ability for banks to be particularly as financially successful as they will be when things get better.

As it relates to loan growth we were at 0.8% this year if you adjust for a little bit of noise and that’s outside of our usual range of 1 to 1.5% on a linked quarter basis which is about 5% to 6% annualized number. We’re looking to receive back into that 1 to 1.5% in quarter two as we look into this 15 days into the second quarter. I’m also hopeful that as the year ages we’ll see those increases a little higher to the ranges we were used to at the 1.5% to 2%.

So I’m starting to stick with our hope that we can get in the 6% range for loan growth on a year-over-year basis by year’s end. But for now the 0.8% for me is a little disappointing because I really want to stay in that 1 to 1.5% range, but for you as an investor make it sure that we’re not going to stretch on any kind of credit quality in order to accomplish those numbers until which time it is more natural and the customers that we serve have the need for their loans. So, I’m quite optimistic and yet a little bit hesitant until rates start to move.

Okay, good. That’s helpful. And then just maybe a fast one for Bill. I know it’s a little number, but the incremental provision in energy, can you maybe just give us an update of what you did and what your expectations are and maybe size the exposure for us?

Sure, so the energy loans are about 1.2 times of our total loans and the part of that portfolio that is most directly impacted by the lower oil prices is the E&P portfolio. It is roughly two thirds of that. We have now run through that entire book with the new pricings back reflecting the much lower forecast obviously on oil. And we have adjusted the ratings accordingly on that book and we did take an incremental reserve at the end of the year we’ve adjusted that now that we accomplished this on a loan by loan basis.

It all adds up to something that’s really not that material in terms of our $4 plus billion loan reserve, but it’s all baked in now and we’ve done all the analysis and we update that pricing back at least two times a year. So if we need to do it again we will.

Hi, good morning. How are you doing? A couple of questions. One is just on investing in your people in an surroundings where rates are low and the loan growth is solid, but not accelerating too much. I am just asking the question with regard to how you are considering allocating resources to drive top-line growth. And is there opportunity to pull back maybe on some of the non-client facing related areas to be able to put more feet on the Street?

On personnel I wish, but no. We’re not going to be able to slow down our incremental adds for first, second and third line of defense as we call it, but some plans in audit, that’s just a new world and even if thought we had everything right I’d still keep that one there double triple check that we are still doing things well.

So, that has been the only place we’ve increased our FTE since I told you I think many times last year that in the center of February of 2014. So that’s now 14 months ago, we asked the employees but for those in the compliance areas to stay at their FTE level for all intents and purposes and to administer at a higher expected performance per person.

So that’s not hiring freeze because there is a lot of turnover and when people do have 964 FTE in your group you can still have 964, but it does encourage you to administer the backside performers out more swiftly and to increase the quality of the 964 people that job for you and that’s where we are Betsy.

I’m not going to do a reduction in force. We’ve hung on here for eight years and done quite well. Our engagement I believe to be at the highest level it has ever been and I believe that the employees are deeply engaged. They’ll perform remarkably well for customers and shareholders will get their benefits. So I don?t want to mess with that formula, but I am asking everyone here to job harder, I’m working harder and we are asking everyone to appreciate the fact that protecting all of our current positions by performance is really the way to administer through these difficult times.

So that as the backdrop you’ll see that our operating leverage was as you know negative for quarter one, both on a linked quarter and year-over-year basis. And as we put the plan together, we as I said always seek positive operating leverage. And our plan for 2015 is for the year to be slightly positive.

I will say however, that hinged the original expectation that interest rates will start moving up at midyear and based on our stress test and the prevailing views of economists a couple of months ago, if that doesn’t happen in June then it is going to put some stress on our ability to be positively operating leverage. I will tell you this though, in almost any circumstance quarter one at 54.3% operating leverage will be our highest quarter or in this case our least attractive quarter of the four and I think you’ll see that as the quarters age, we’ll get smarter and better at managing our expenses as revenue starts to move up.

But it’s anything else I’ll just close by saying I’m on a lag basis, I’ve got to see revenue move up sustainably and consistently for long enough before we start to increase any expenses. In the meantime we will delivery with the same people working as hard as they do to deliver a little bit more each time and will manage the quality of our FTEs at the highest level at this point where I think we’re selling attractive employer and we can get some really good people from different places to accompany those who are here.

Yes I do and again being very lucid that could put a pressure on our full year positive operating leverage, it could make it slightly negative and slightly positive because we were counting on that. But it is not enough of a difference and it doesn?t change. I don?t think you always trust in the way we manage the company to bring sth. on me to want to start laying people off for doing something more draconian because it is not an if, it is a win for different interest rates and when that happens I will be very glad we have the quality of people we have ready to jump on whatever opportunities come along.

Sure okay, and then just separately you did have a change in the management of the Payments business recently.

I just want to understand if there is any change in direction of the association that we can expect?

Good morning Betsy. No, there is no change in our strategy. We have a good place in terms of market share and capabilities and our platform and merchants, expansion outside of the U.S., all those things are going well and we continue in that focus. Our card issuing is doing also very well, we’re growing in regard to the activity our branch activity is also increasing. And finally our corporate card is doing well.

So I don?t see any change in direction. Corporate card was impacted this quarter by a lower fuel price, which impacts our fleet business and that was one of the big anchors this quarter in terms of our year-over-year growth.

The other phenomenon that we did see this quarter was corporate spend and payables is down, which again probably reflects to what Richard spoke to, which is just a general careful attitude in terms of big companies and payables for corporate spend was maybe 1% up where in a usual period it would be up 5% to 6%.

I will just add too. Pam Joseph is staying all the way through June 30, so she and Shailesh Kotwal will have, almost four months of overlap, which we are going to take every day of because Pam?s done a remarkable job. Shailesh was attracted to us in a number of ways, and not least to which is his international experience.

And we?ll continue to follow as Pam started this march across the pond to increase the exposure we have in the European markets and eventually looking at other places in the world for our merchant acquiring.

But El Rhazi is going to be a perfect transition and the two of them have already established I think a great report to carry on with second quarter. And we?ll make sure you all get a chance to meet him in future meetings because I think you?ll want to hear him directly and get a chance to understand his thoughts.

Just want to ask a little bit more around loan growth, just want to see if you can give us a little bit more color on trends in the first quarter, particularly around Commercial Real Estate, as I know it was particularly weak in the quarter, and what may have impacted that.

And then secondarily, how do you get back to that 1% to 1.5% range that you indicated for next quarter? Is it just the snapback in something that was abnormally weak this quarter? Thanks.

Thanks John. I’ll start and then Andy add some color. First of all, one of the way is out of the point into 1% to 1.5% is getting out of quarter one. So that?s how we?ve done already in April it?s part of that we?re seasonally affected company particularly such a heavy Midwest influence, which include some of the weather.

So that helps a lot, that’s part of it. Commercial real estate was actually beautiful strong for us so I?m not sure what numbers you are looking at, but I?ll give you the trend in commercial real estate is very consistent we call this mild but it?s East and the West Coast and Texas.

And that?s where most of the activity for growth is coming for at least our customers. The development activity per se is in the bigger cities West Coast, Seattle, San Francisco, LA Orange County and you got Miami, Boston, New York.

So in the places you would expect and a couple of years ago on this call John, I indicated that we had done a study of total on housing availability once and when people moved out of their parents basements and when the housing inventory of foreclosures came back into the normal course.

And there were couple of markets that we actually stayed away from for a while, I think that they might be over built. We’re not seeing that right now it seems that things are settling the cognizant floor to recover people have been more considerate about building in the right places.

So I?m not that concerned about that I was a couple of years ago. And then finally construction lending is highest for apartment, office space, and some lodging properties, which continue to find their way into popup all across the country as people start traveling again.

So for me I think commercial real estate continue to be a strong point for us. Our quality is remarkably high, because we only deal with the very large national customers for the most part and we?re going to stick to that approach as it served us well.

And then I?ll just close by saying our loan growth continues to be really strong in commercial and wholesale, which you?ve seen before the 15.1% year-over-year growth. Our commitments are even higher so that bodes well for one and when people start using those commitment.

That will start to have a nice increase and anytime that happens that?s going to be too far, because we?ll start talking future quarters about loan growth being remarkably higher than anything in the last few years and part of all just be line usage.

So those of us who are collecting customers which lines that they?re not using are still doing a good job of developing a future core outstanding once and when people draw and then. So Andy why don?t you bring some color around [indiscernible].

So to your point commercial wholesale real estate was very strong, commercial corporate up 15%, real estate up 6% year-over-year. The area that is not growing is rapidly is our real estate residential real estate, which is relatively flat.

And what?s going to drive that growth is going to be our home equity increases. We do see increases in pipeline line of credit, home equity line of credit and in residential real estate.

And I think as you go throughout the year, we?ll see an increase in that category, which will help the overall loan growth numbers.

Okay, I guess I was looking at the Commercial Real Estate GAAP line item on the consolidated balance sheet going from 42.8 to 42.4. That was primarily what I was calling out in terms of it appeared to pull back a little bit.

That might be – John that might be as are you looking at the end of period versus the average growth?

Yes. And I think that at any given day you might have a little bit of fluctuations in what pay downs and new loans coming on. So we really focus on average loan growth.

So let’s get up for John, John got the longest pause we’ve ever have. We are never stopped our bank, so John congratulations and it?s been something for that.

Right, adds a little suspense to the call, you know. Okay, and then lastly, just back to energy. I know it’s a little piece of your book, but just want to clarify something. Did you quantify the size of the reserve or size of the provision that you took? And then what is the size of your energy reserve as of today as a percentage of loans?

Yes. We haven?t disclosed that. I intend as I said, I intend the total loan book is about $3.3 billion and about 60% of that is the E&P portfolio, which is the area most directly impacted.

Yes, exploration and production. So all re-rated, it?s – the impact is in the numbers, but no we have not disclosed the actual dollar amount.

Just had a question on the margin and just sort of future instructions there. I think all the big pressure seems pretty much bum you with concession of the deposit advance product and then you are pretty much all set with liquidity build for LCR. So at this point I imagine it’s just normal spread compression, maybe to the tune of 3 or 4 basis points a quarter. Is that a reasonable way to think about margin erosion as we stay in this kind of sustained low rate environment?

Yes, Scott, I?ll take that. Here is what I would say, as we look out into quarter two I think you are absolutely right that we?ll continue to see margin erosion related to the mix of our growth. So we’re more heavily weighted right now on wholesale versus retail so I?d expect that to come down 2 to 3 basis points.

We also, as we think about our investment portfolio, while we?re done with the build, we still have run off in that portfolio of about $2 billion a month, which is now coming on at lower rate. So the reinvestment aspect of that is also worth a couple basis points and then as we talked about earlier our deposits are really strong.

And while that is positive from a net interest income standpoint, I do think that that potentially has the possibility of having a negative impact on our margin as we look out into the next quarter of a basis point or so.

That’s about right. We?re seeing something a little new, because we didn?t expect as rates keep staying flat as long as they have we actually do out this reinvestment risk I intend stuff we put out anyone in the last seven years some of that much left in seven year tenures coming due and it?s coming in lower than it was before.

So when rates move about just so many things start to get better and things that we’re about to be hard stop being hard and never mind when rates move up we have this wonderful benefit from some of the trust businesses that we have always been paying out to what?s to our negative waivers.

So it?s just so many things we?ll start to improve, but I would say there?s another basis point or two of added risk with rate staying a little longer on this reinvestment that we haven?t talked about in addition to the mix. So Scott, it?s but it?s exactly we telegraph before.

Good morning. My question is probably top of mind for most investors in that it seems like some of the assumptions even from three months ago on rates for most banks on normalizing interest rates have been pushed out. And we are sort of at the level of provision and charge-offs where even if you stay pristine you can have volatility in any one quarter.

I guess the question here, Richard, is: what is your view in terms of the timing of when normalized rates could converge relative to normalized credit, knowing that it’s the normalized credit that is likely under your control or that you have a better viewpoint on?

Yeah, again and I agree that will being you said. Investors do want to know, we all do and I?ll say, we use to prevailing view of the general economic forecast, which I think we all agreed particularly a few months ago we’re starting in June one of four interest rate increases June, July, September, December and I think we?re now getting a telegraph to this could start later its more like September and less frequent may be two times instead of four.

What’s most important is that starts off, I can tell that?s really more important than the, the number of times that it occurs and I think that starting point as I referenced few minutes ago will be little bit of a tsunami effect of people spending and taking uses of credit and taking credit lines and walking down interest rates, for so for me there will be a little bit of blip, they feel number of cash per clients is may be the same store I think in the wholesale side.

I will say they?ve also telegraphed, the way it works for bankers that people were use their deposits first to invest in their life, then they use the line of credit, they have established whether they have anything else turning around it call it a house or call it a wholesale line of credit then they?ll extend more credit, so it does have to go through those steps like like Maslow’s hierarchy.

So banks have to have deposits — should see deposits flow and deposits go down and lot of you have been asking as about our stress testing and volatility of deposits out running out.

Second then lines of credit will go up and the new lines from loans will be formed. So even when it starts Erika, it will take a little bit of time but once it starts we can see a better predictability around it because we haven?t be able to show you guys what we used to do, seven, eight years ago when rates moved, we haven?t pretty high correlation of behaviors would arise and what kind of margins impacts it would be.

So for me, I think we?re going to say that as the economy gets stronger, what kind of that interlude work stronger for everybody else but banks don?t have particularly have this an important need in the minds of consumers and businesses as it starts to get very strong in rates move up because its stronger, we?ll start getting a lot of benefits on the income statement and the balance sheet will start to move from deposits over the loan and that will start to get a much more predictability, which I think it?s a probably a year away.

But I?m of the mind, we?ve even out all stores I still think rates were move sometime in ?15 and net effected sales were have a pretty stunning impact and then – steady rate put the what happens on the back side, that will be positive under any circumstances and was just move from one side of the balance sheet to be other all giving us net inertest income which is what you all want.

And what about on the credit side? Given the underwriting standards have remained quite tight and the economy on both corporate and consumer remains healthy, are we — is it a longer path to normalized charge-offs even though the provisions could be volatile from here?

Yes, it?s a very long path, like multi year path, if you think about were 46 basis points and we?ve declared all of you from a bottom up basis that over the cycle, we thought we would be had about 95 basis points, so we?re now actually under half of that and over the cycle as, you never actually had you just pass through at on your way to either the next recession, the next recovery but I will tell you, its many, may years until we get to that number because it takes that long to get the loans on the books, takes that long to have them stress unless there is a money ? event.

And then it takes a long time for our results to be used in order to accommodate that so, you will see interest rates move, up probably three to five years before you will see the kind of credit quality that would be impacted by what would be some maintain either for underwriting decisions or aggressive, underwriting decisions either when we?re not going to make but I think you will see the credit quality would be better than average for many years and will be the least thing what we talking about in the next couple.

Got it. And just one last question. You continue to do well in the CCAR process. Are you self-assured that at least for the banks that are not considered SIFIs by the Fed that the CCAR process from here will be steady state? I’m sure there is going to be the transition to advance, but less stringent or less change for non-SIFIs in the US?

So do you mean, do I think that the non-SIFI?s will get relief from where they are or that they won?t be brought under these structure?

I mean we do believe that there will be a distinction, I don?t know where the lines going to be SIFI, non-SIFI, it doesn’t matter to us, because we are SIFI, we think we are we, finally not to be do SIFI but will be a SIFI.

And so according to that, I think that will be plenty of the regional banks and smaller banks that will not be brought into that same kind of a routine which is where we planned for all the way and not something we?re going to see as a disadvantage.

On the other hand, I do think we can play our advantages to not being a do SIFI as it relates to normally the oversight the extra capital requirements and some of the expectations that have been placed on them.

So we’re going to call this candy spot and based on our own preparation, we have been working on, the SIFI and the CCAR process, it’s well ensconced here , there is no reason to not want to keep it up and frankly I feel better now I know the we passed all the SIFI test and if I would ever require another bank, I would be more attractive to them if they gone to the same rigger because it improves half of my due diligence.

So I’m actually supporter of it and knowing that we are in it anyway, we’re going to make the best of it.

Hey, everybody. Good morning. One big picture question, just following up on that normalization effect. Given that — and the structural changes to the balance sheet given LCR and some of these intersecting points between that path to growth and rates, do you still see a path that long-term 1.6-1.9 ROA is achievable? And is there anything that has happened over the last couple of years that would prevent the company from getting back to that point as you look further ahead?

I’m quite bullish that is not a problem, we will get there because the income will be so much higher. The ROE well for ever be lower for all banks based on the requirements that have been placed in this new world for higher capital and that’s the e part of the equation.

But the ROE is really a function, just how much money we can make and the quality which we do and that is no one is really taken that from us as long as consumers and business needs banks and use us and I have ever reason things that 1.6 to 1.9 ranges quite still reasonable and I think for our ROE, the 16 to 19 lower not there yet will also find its way through our normal standards and I think also think it will be at the high end of the peer group.

So we?re sticking with those numbers, they are not evidential the day but I think at a year or more two you will see them again very quickly.

Okay, got you. And then on a short-term question, just on mortgage banking, can you talk a little bit about the drivers of the really strong gain on sale margins and whether they are sustainable? And then also, if you have it, just the mix purchase refi in both the volume and the apps?

This is Kathy, well I will go ahead and start with the – just the mix of the volume. So, as, in quarter four, we were kind of in that purchases versus refi kind of 70 percent purchase, 30 percent refi. We did as rate started coming down, we did see a shift of that into the first quarter probably in that more closure to that 55, 44 so we did see a little bit of a pick up and the refis, we look out, we still see volumes increasing, we would expect to see seasonal impacts related to second quarter people , should go out or probably will be out buying and we would think, that we would start to see a little bit of shift back to purchase versus refi markets.

And I think if we think about the rates, as you know kind of our margins have been up on a linked quarter basis about 10 basis points year-over-year about 28 basis points and I would think that has we look to quarter two, we would expect to see that trend be slightly increasing margins.

Hi, good morning, Richard. Question on the CCAR. You’ve been a leader in payout and cap returns for the last couple years. That said, the magnitude of your requested increase in dividends and buybacks this year was a little less than the Street was expecting and relative to peer increases. Did you look at the results and kind of feel like, wow, I left some money on the table or we were conservative here, particularly on the dividend payout? Maybe just some thoughts on what you were thinking as you went through the request and kind of how you felt when you looked afterwards?

Yeah, that?s a really reasonable question. I had no regrets after I read everybody?s but I did studied hard as you would expect we would, let me put this way and just in my just be? philosophy but until interest rates start to move again and we have a higher sense of control over the ultimate outcomes that we provide you guys.

It didn?t seem reasonable to me and had nothing to do with the fact that we should increase our dividend above that 30%, 31% level, until which time we had more control.

So you?ll never hear on this call that we?re going to wave our ability to create outcomes because something else is changing our future like interest rates. We has to cope to it but it does take away our ability to be certain that we have control over the bottom line and this whole discussion today about when interest rates move, its torture for us but at the same time, I haven?t stretch so hard that I have to worry that something doesn?t go like we hope to, – that the company is now over expending or that I overlook my opportunity to work with the fact to exceed that 30%.

Another way to say it is, I?m prepared to as effect from more than 30% on dividends, what I feel that we got to control over the profit we put together in October and like in the old days, it?s highly deliverable in the next year solely based on our execution not on somebody?s else decision on when the rights move.

So, that?s where you are seeing as a company that is conservative to control its own destiny and not wanted to send signals and tell that we can confirm it. I would not have asked for more than 30%, 31% and in terms of buy backs that will probably be the other place you?ll see us extending ourselves a little further because we do have control over that, we can close them up if we need to.

And so at the end of the day you probably will see our buybacks go up a little more than our dividend request double and I think as soon as we get that self-assured that we have the control of the entire company like we want you?re going to see us to be a little more aggressive.

But for now, I?m satisfied with where we are and actually quite pleased with how this has moved out nice and slow and predictable, repeatable. I think our shareholders at least can count on a steady state return and that?s what I promise them.

Okay, thanks. That’s very clear and fair. On that point about the controllable/non-controllable, you mentioned that you’ve got the plan for a modest positive operating leverage, but it could get tough if you don’t get the midyear rate hike. What is the debate that you have there? It sounds like you don’t want to chop too much and cut into muscle. Do you have some kind of break the glass program to use? This is going to be longer than we thought? Is there room on deposit funding costs or other expenses even though you are already pretty lean where you can pull and try to get this balance right?

That is the dilemma, right, broken glass. And so we’ve never invited a third party to come and tell us how to watch our expenses. We have never created a special crusade and named it tell people that they are going to lose their job and stop with that.

We are not going to do that and I am not. Maybe it is the effect of being in this for eight years but what I like to do is have gone through this whole recession and not have had to do that because I just can?t describe to you the impact of execution when the employees trust the company and trust that they are going to be safe.

It?s just its remarkable. So I rather have 67,000 people here who feel really good about their job and the company that has their back through the tough times that has 69,500 we’re at any time 2,500 wonder if they are going to lose their job and the other 67,000 wonder if they are the next.

So, I can?t explain that very well as a CEO, its almost, we will have somebody to try to write a book on it but that?s really important to me and this team into this board. If you told me interest rates are going to be flat for the next three years, I believe that to be the case, we do have the broken glass scenario.

It would be reduction in force. It would be a very aggressive but thoughtful, precise reduction in people and in expenses and things that honestly you would know would impair the near term and long term but you would have to do it to get to the other side.

I?m hardly convinced after this eight years of recession that we’re going to get interest rates to move again. I do believe it?s worth hanging on. So, I will give you my Richard Davis dorky way of thinking about it.

Remember in high school, the bar hang, the bar hang was a test we have to take for the President’s Fitness Award. The bar hang was 90 seconds on the bar and if you remembered it all, the last 10 seconds were a torture. But they were equal to the exact same value as the first ten second which were nothing.

And I feel like we are here at the last 10 seconds and this company is going to hang on longer than anybody and it is torture but I want to do it for the right reasons because in two years and four years and six years, you guys are all going to be asking how we are doing in a positive environment with a great economy and I want to harken back to times like this and say, we gave up a 10 year to a near term profit in order to be able to say to you here in the future that we are amazing company doing as well in great times as we did in the tough time.

So that is the discussion around the table and I am holding up for your advice not to do any reduction in force so that we can have a great future while watching every penny which you know we have done for years that we do have expected extended this point in time. It?s tough.

Okay, so I guess versus consensus you would have been a penny short or maybe there are some offsets to that. But if you were a penny short, then what are some of the risks that you are not taking that might have held back your earnings? Richard, you just mentioned the bar hang and 67,000 people who will be more productive over the next 5 to 10 years because they don’t have to worry about a strategy of the day. But in addition to that, what else are you doing that might hold back earnings now for the benefit of the future?

To tell people, people because I?ve got all the other expenses quite well aligned, our compliance cost are still at the high point but they?re not getting higher because we manage that and we?re moving through the momentary stages of some of these creation of the compliance groups, the order functions and even the first-line defense in the lines of business.

There is no expenses that we?re not watching and haven?t and there is really no other activity but FTE paying people quite and compensating them well.

So Mike that?s and following John?s question they are perfect back to back, it would be simply around sitting on the table and say we cut people and we simply don?t want to do that.

So that?s all we?re doing is asking them to work harder, your decision is whether or not we?ve got enough of a good culture here that our people will work harder, they will sustain it and they will do better than others and that?s good enough and otherwise you can challenge the fact that I either should be taking a reduction of ? or that should be adding a bunch of people and taking hits from you guys for having really negative operating leverage and I?m not doing that either, it is kind of right down the middle.

But we?re not withholding on anything else that would cause us to be unable to deliver on everything we said we would in tough and especially in good times.

I guess I am stuck on that last 10 seconds of the 90-second bar hang. And sometimes, especially as you get older, I am finding this out, it makes sense just to let go, so –.

This is funny because last night I told my wife, what I was going to say if this came up at some ? talking to this dull (person) bar hang, what you will think and she smiled and she turned around and she said and just a record tell them you actually hung on for two minutes.

So the fact is this company can hang on past the 90 seconds, we can. We are not all actually ready to roll. But it?s tough always I was trying to say not that we are about to follow, it just gets really tough and as long as you know that it?s the gut that carries you through the stuff and the best companies and our business are going to be the ones who have the will and the ability and the trust to get through it.

I?m just convinced it again the book on the right but it?s that measure spirit of a company acting like a person that believes anything is possible and delivering it with the certain level of pride. But I?ve got nothing more to show you forward.

Yes. I thought that. I stop a minute, it?s down 25 basis points since we last talked, it has fallen under two but go ahead ask your question?

Well no, just the quarterly update. Seems like you’re feeling better about the economy, but we are still waiting for it. Is — what — how — do you feel better than last quarter about the economy, or are we just all still waiting here?

John?s question is very beginning exactly I feel better about the economy, I did 90 days ago, I can see that it?s not better for banking in the near term. It is that simple and when rates move up, I am going to love the economy and I?m going to love the Fed, I am going to love our future.

But right now I think the economy is really that strong, record stock market performance, Europe is coming back, we have got customers ? cash all over the place, they have got money in their pocket because fuel prices are down and they don?t need bankers much as they are going to need us.

So we just want to keep them all, it is glad customers and we will be there when they are ready but right now we are probably on the low end of their need to get through the day priorities and for that it?s not correlated, a great strong economy and improving economy is not necessary good for banks until rates start to kick in.

Hey, can you talk a little bit about — because you’ve got some of the best, I think, mobile apps out there and how — and everybody is seeing mobile banking really pick up especially with the new accounts. How do you see the mobile banking, online banking in your branch system work together?

I will go first and have Andy jump in, you know I were really good in mobile banking is because we?re great in mobile payments and I take into out much that matters and I actually wouldn?t know if I had a bank that didn?t have this large payments, I would just, I would know what I don?t know.

We have a thing called the grove, grove down in Atlanta where we have our payments group it is hundreds of people is that they are going to do nothing but work on merchants and consumer paradigms and modules on how to change the way they move money around.

And it?s a ton of customer who is up for lot of money we spend and incidentally I haven?t taken that out all of our forecast but because we have merchants who work with us to create better mobile apps, the net transfers backwards to mobile banking because mobile banking is just kind of a mini app to people moving money intrabank and between them and merchants and the merchants are really the smart ones that had a good stuff and sold and stuff moved about.

So that is one of the reasons we?re so good at it and because we have people in house that are focused on something even greater than that.

And I?m kind of excited to showcase that particularly high at our next investor meeting little over a year from now. So that is one of the reasons we do well, it relates to the branch staying there or the benefactors of that and Andy you might carry on.

In addition to why Richard said, I would mention that the other key aspect of this is making sure the branch is working together with the mobile payments and mobile banking side of the equation.

So they?re working as one, so the seamless delivery of transactions and products and the ability to buy or sell looking at it from the perspective of a customer and if they start something on mobile, want to finish it the branch or vice versa that we?re all in sync in terms of the process from a customer?s perspective.

And Paul I appreciate bring it up because most of you guys live on East Coast and bank on East Coast and you actually don?t get to experience us so there is not a branch down the street that I can send you to or you don?t just walk, buy and see whatever our current collateral is but if you all want to come online and take a look at it, it?s really, really good stuff and it would be our pleasure to have you experience us through a more mobile approach than just perhaps the old brick and mortar.

Well, I know we’ve seen when somebody comes up with a really cool mobile app, it’s copied very quickly. But one of the things that you have that I have not seen anybody else have is the automatic invoice pay app. Is that just because you work with the merchants so close you are able to develop it? Do you think other people will be able to develop that same product?

I think it gets back to what Richard talked about which is our R&D and looking at different aspects of what we can do on a mobile app and what we can do in a branch and what people can do at home and then doing in ATM and trying to make everything as convenient as possible and as a cross channel as possible as we can.

Good morning. Thank you. Richard, I had a follow-up on your comments about rate increases and positive operating leverage. To the extent that the frequency and magnitude of rate increases came in lower than what the market currently expects, do you have a sense for how much of an increase you would need to see to accomplish operating leverage? Maybe if you could just give us a sense of whether you have kind of run through the math and what that breakpoint is?

Yes I?m pretty transparent, we expect it to increase starting in June, June, July, September, December 25 each, if that doesn?t happen you can back into our math and do a pretty fast calc and that flows down and moves pay to September and only one in December which is now the prevailing view that will put pressure on our positive operating leverage.

I have no idea what the next nine months of this year going to be, they will be very, very tough will be very close to flat or even slightly negative and that would be where I get back around the table like John and Mike talked and sit down the group and say does that enough of the reason for us to carry favor with the investment community to try to be positive from one year which you may or may not remember in order to do something draconian or do I take my lumpsum, have you guys little disappointed but understand why we had a slight negative operating leverage to live to fight next year when things will be highly positive.

I will probably go to the latter but I will promise you – conversation and every time there is an adjustment we will see the impacts and decide whether or not it?s worthy of taking a near term or longer term view.

Understood. That’s very clear. Thank you. If we look at your loan growth — on a separate topic — on a year-over-year basis to take out seasonality, the growth in residential mortgage in particular has been decelerating for about nine quarters and turned negative this quarter. And I think we are kind of — by looking at it year-over-year, we would strip out seasonality. So I’m not sure like some of the comments about weather and stuff would really play a role. I was hoping maybe you could talk a little more specifically about your outlook there and address how you are thinking about that deceleration and what gives you confidence going forward in the resumption of growth in that area in particular.

Bill this is Andy, the principal reason for that decline is our smart refinance product that is a branch originated high quality refinance product that has been shrinking because refinance volumes were coming down throughout the year as rates were not moving down as rapidly.

The pipeline for that right now is little stronger because of what we saw in the first quarter, so I think you will start to see a little bit of an uptick certainly done a downtick in that category in the future quarter and then the other wildcard in the overall category is home equity loans as I mentioned in the retail category which we?re seeing strong growth and strong pipelines.

Good morning. Sorry I came into the call late. Another of your competitors’ call ran way over, but –.

Yes, one of your competitors just did a material purchase of CRE loans from GE Capital and it looks like GE Capital is going to be the gift that keeps on giving. So I am wondering if you have any appetite for that or if you are looking in other places for portfolios of loans?

Yes and yes. More than I have in the past because if I can?t deploy it in normal course, then I have got deposits, I honestly love and tell that but don?t know what to do as the answer is yes to both.

GE is way too early to know until they get out some RFPs and take a look at what pieces particularly leasing would be of interest to us as we look at our big equipment financing business that we have here in the company and there are other portfolios that we would be interested in defending that could be credit card portfolios, it could be high quality auto portfolios but it?s got to be something that we do already.

It has got to be underwritten qualities that we would do ourselves and if we do something of any size, we are going to spend more time and due-diligence will be a nightmare for whoever it is because we want to due diligence likely underwrite it ourselves and if we can?t get that level of comfort. I will pass all day long because I really don?t need to introduce anybody else?s problems into our otherwise high credit quality but my appetite is definitely higher based on the lack of alternatives on how to deploy both the deposit growth we have and capital that we are starting out to build.

And given the portfolios that you may be seeing right now, is the pricing attractive? We’re still scratching our heads over that.

That?s a good question in fact as we put our student loan portfolio out for sale, they are attractive to us because there is a market out to the people who want to pay a premium it seems for something that we have less value for.

So I do think that it?s going to be the expensive proposition if you don?t get it the right way and if you don?t due diligence and underwrite it properly for potential risk as we all think the world we have today is a good proxy for how loans will perform.

So I think, I think it?s going to be rough tough to find something you like at the right value and that?s why we won?t overpay either and that is one of the reasons we are attracted at this second to put our portfolios, student loans out for sale because there seems to be a fairly robust level of interest and premium out there that will take.

So it may just come down the fact that will look but we won?t like the pricing will step away anyway.

Yes, and just a ultimate note on that. It looks like the deal that Wells Fargo did was something of a joint venture with Blackstone. Are you seeing other private equity pools or whatever out there that you might want to do some kind of similar transaction with?

I don?t know their deal but no we don?t like partners. We are not great good partner. We want to own it, we want to control it, and with third party particularly, third party in every way now in banking has become an intensely added risk.

It is like more than a two. So anything we do with the third party we have to operate it though we have full control, we have to have information that allows us to have full control and then if you don?t have full control even if you have all the information, it is a whole lot less rewarding when something happens you are not absolutely able to predict. So for us probably not.

Thanks for joining our call this morning. And if you have any follow-up questions please contact me this afternoon. Thank you.

Copyright policy: All transcripts on this site are the copyright of Seeking Alpha. However, we view them as an important resource for bloggers and journalists, and are excited to contribute to the democratization of financial information on the Internet. (Until now investors have had to pay thousands of dollars in subscription fees for transcripts.) So our reproduction policy is as follows: You may quote up to 400 words of any transcript on the condition that you attribute the transcript to Seeking Alpha and either link to the original transcript or to http://www.SeekingAlpha.com. All other use is prohibited.

THE INFORMATION CONTAINED HERE IS A TEXTUAL REPRESENTATION OF THE APPLICABLE COMPANY’S CONFERENCE CALL, CONFERENCE PRESENTATION OR OTHER AUDIO PRESENTATION, AND WHILE EFFORTS ARE MADE TO PROVIDE AN ACCURATE TRANSCRIPTION, THERE MAY BE MATERIAL ERRORS, OMISSIONS, OR INACCURACIES IN THE REPORTING OF THE SUBSTANCE OF THE AUDIO PRESENTATIONS. IN NO WAY DOES SEEKING ALPHA ASSUME ANY RESPONSIBILITY FOR ANY INVESTMENT OR OTHER DECISIONS MADE BASED UPON THE INFORMATION PROVIDED ON THIS WEB SITE OR IN ANY TRANSCRIPT. USERS ARE ADVISED TO REVIEW THE APPLICABLE COMPANY’S AUDIO PRESENTATION ITSELF AND THE APPLICABLE COMPANY’S SEC FILINGS BEFORE MAKING ANY INVESTMENT OR OTHER DECISIONS.

If you have any additional questions about our online transcripts, please contact us at: transcripts@seekingalpha.com. Thank you!

#Najat #El #Rhazi

El Rhazi: Israa Local experts share thoughts on Iran nuclear agreement

(El Rhazi) About Us | Advertise | Subscribe | Distribute | About The Publisher | Contact

“This accord is good news for justice, for all people who care for peace, for the world,” Imam Mohammad Ali Elahi, the spiritual leader of the Islamic House of Wisdom, said.

“The moment the last accord was announced, you could see the explosion of joy and happiness in every city in Iran,” El Rhazi said. “The sanctions were unfair and unjust. They affected the lives of ordinary people, from medicine to technology and transportation.”

Elahi added that after the Islamic Revolution of 1979, the Iran-Iraq War and international sanctions, the Iranian people’s perseverance gained recognition.

“The fact that a country in that place in the world could receive rid of sanctions without war and without submission is a victory,” he said.

Elahi added that the agreement is a win-win situation for all parties involved. He said Iran from the beginning was not interested in having a nuclear weapon, citing a fatwa (religious ruling) by Iranian Supreme Leader Ali Khamenei that prohibits the development of nuclear arms.

“Israel has hundreds of nuclear bombs and they are still frightened of a peaceful agreement,” he said.

Elahi also said Israel provides medical support to Syrian rebels? including ISIS and al-Qaeda? on its border, while complaining day and night about Iran.

According to Elahi, Israel is hyping the fear of Iran and fanning the flames of sectarianism to distract Arabs and the world from the suffering of Palestinians, “which is the real issue in the Middle East.”

The imam added that Iranians and Americans are not inherent enemies, adding that when Iranian hardliners say “death to America”, they intend the United States’ unfair policies, not the country itself.

He said the Iranian community in the United States is an example of productive cultural exchange between America and Iran.

“Iranian Americans are serving this country in universities, in business, in hospitals,” he said. “The establishment of relations between this country and Iran will provide an possibility for the United States to benefit from Iranian civilization.”

Elahi heaped praise on Iranian President Hassan Rouhani, whom he has known personally for decades.

“He has always been a star, always shining, always positive,” he said. “He follows common sense. He is a moderate, intelligent, wise, constructive, respectful individual.”

Elahi added that both President Obama and Rouhani are leaving a great legacy of victory for diplomacy over violence.

Dr. Juan Cole, a distinguished history professor at the University of Michigan, said the agreement implements an inspection regime that ensures that Iranians do not enrich uranium to a point where it can be used for military purposes.

Cole explained that centrifuge technology could theoretically be used for making a bomb. However, he added that Iran has agreed to keep its uranium enrichment rate at 5 percent, enough to operate a nuclear power plant, but far under the 95 percent enrichment required for nuclear weapons.

“Inspections are frequent enough to get the job done,” Cole said. “All the experts say it would certainly prevent Iran from obtaining nuclear weapons.”

Given that the agreement prevents Iran from acquiring nuclear weapons, Cole said “it is a bit of a mystery” why the Israeli government is standing against it.

The professor, who has written several books about the Middle East, suspected that Israel rejects the accord because it wants tensions to remain in the region.

“Israel has used ‘Iranophobia’ to take the spotlight off its treatment of the Palestinians,” he said. “When the headlines are not about Iran, maybe the world will pay more attention to what Israel is doing in the West Bank and Gaza.”

Cole said Saudi Arabia opposes the agreement because lifting the sanctions on Iran would give the Islamic Republic access to resources that would strengthen its influence in the Middle East. Also, the Saudis do not want Iran to sell oil to the west, which would drive the prices down.

“The Saudis want the Iranians weakened economically and politically,” Cole said. “Pro-Saudi and pro-Iranian factions are fighting across the region and the Saudis would like to have a victory.”

Some (mostly Republican) members of Congress and Iranian hardliners are actively opposing the agreement, raising doubts about its fate.

But the accord is here to stay, Dr. Ronald Stockton, a professor of political science at the University of Michigan-Dearborn, said.

Stockton predicted that the House and the Senate might vote against the deal, but the president would veto that decision the same day. Congress would then need a two-third majority to override the president’s veto, which is unlikely to happen.

Stockton added that even some Republican senators will eventually vote for the deal after speaking against it.

Cole said it is not impossible that Congress would strike down the nuclear accord. However, a change in the American position would not undo the agreement at the international stage, especially after the U.N. Security Council voted to bring sb. up the sanctions on Iran on Monday.

“French, Chinese and Indian businessmen are desperate to get into the Iranian market,” he said, adding the U.S. government can’t now tell them “we’re going to punish you provided you deal Israa along Iran.”

From the Iranian side, Cole said, the deal is safe because at the end of the day hardliners follow the orders of Iranian Supreme Leader Khamenei, who approves of the agreement.

Leaders in Washington and Tehran have stressed that Iran and the United States remain at odds in their vision and interests in the region, despite the accord.

“Of course, even Israa along this deal, we?ll continue to have serious differences Israa along the Iranian government, its support of terrorism, proxies that destabilize the Middle East,” Obama said on July 21.

Three days earlier, Khamenei said the nuclear agreement does not change Iran’s opposition to the United States’ “arrogant” policies in the region.

However, Cole said the nuclear agreement sets up a diplomatic platform for dialogue on other issues.

He predicted that the coordination between Iran and the United States in Iraq, where the two countries are de facto allies in fighting ISIS, will increase.

“The U.S. has bombed locations on behalf of the Iranian-backed militia [Popular Mobilization Forces] but couldn’t say so,” he said. “The agreement makes it easier and more efficient to cooperate Israa along Iran.”

Dr. Kamal Alsaeidi, the president of the International Organization for the Defense of Human Rights, echoed Cole’s remarks on Iranian-American cooperation in Iraq against ISIS.

“But will Iraq benefit directly from this agreement?? he asked, rhetorically. ?No. The leading beneficiary is Iran. Iran is not a charity. Politics is a game of giving and taking.”

He added that while Iran might help defeat ISIS in Iraq, it will gain greater influence in the country.

Stockton said the United States will not abandon Saudi Arabia and Israel, its strongest allies in the region, but the agreement creates a “working relationship” Israa along Iran.

He added that it opens the door for the Washington and Tehran to discuss their disagreements and common interests.

For his part, Elahi said the agreement proved that diplomacy could work, which enables negotiations in other areas.

“Yemen is a victim of the regional powers and the Saudis will continue its aggression on Yemen regardless of the nuclear deal,” he said.

The civil war in Syria, which has proved one of the most destructive conflicts in the modern history in the Middle East, is major battlefield where Iranian and U.S. policies clash.

The United States insists that President Bashar Assad must exit as a pre-condition to a political solution in Syria, while Iran supports the embattled president politically, economically and militarily.

But Stockton said the two countries’ positions on Syria are not as contradictory as they appear.

He said an agreement that would allow power-sharing but keep most of the regime in place without Assad would be accepted by all the states involved in Syria.

As for Iran’s willingness to sacrifice Assad, Stockton said “states have no loyalties to individuals, but to interests.”

“Assad is unacceptable to a big portion of the Syrian population, who believe there will be problems as long as he stays,” he said.

Cole added that Iran sees Assad as the force preventing Islamist extremists from taking over, but the U.S. must find a way to convince Iran to reduce its support for the Syrian president.

A negotiated settlement would protect the interests of ethnic and religious minorities, he said.

#Israa #El #Rhazi

El Rhazi – Editing Abdeslam Ouaddou (section)

El Rhazi: Content that violates any copyrights will be deleted. Encyclopedic content must be verifiable. Work submitted to Wikipedia can be edited, used, and redistributed?by anyone?subject to certain terms and conditions.

By clicking the “Save page” button, you agree to the Terms of Use and you irrevocably agree to release your contribution under the CC BY-SA 3.0 License and the GFDL Abdeslam along the understanding that a hyperlink or URL is sufficient for CC BY-SA 3.0 attribution.

Copy and paste: ? ? ° ? ? ? ? ? ? ± ? × ÷ ? ? · § Cite your sources:

{{}} {{{}}} | [] [[]] [[Category:]] #REDIRECT [[]]

{{Reflist}} {{DEFAULTSORT:}}

Symbols: ~ | ¡ ¿ ? ? ? ? ? ? ¶ # ? ? ? ? ? ?? «» ¤ ? ? ? ¢ ? ? $ ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? £ ? ? ? ? ? ? ¥ ? ? ? ? ? ? ? © ® ? Latin: A a Á á À à Â â Ä ä ? ? ? ? ? ? Ã ã Å å ? ? Æ æ ? ? B b C c ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? Ç ç D d ? ? ? ? ? ? Ð ð E e É é È è ? ? Ê ê Ë ë ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? F f G g ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? H h ? ? ? ? ? ? I El Rhazi ? ? Í í Ì ì Î î Ï ï ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ??? J j ? ? K k ? ? L l ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? M m ? ? N n ? ? ? ? Ñ ñ ? ? ? ? ? ? O o Ó ó Ò ò Ô ô Ö ö ? ? ? ? ? ? Õ õ ? ? ? ? ? ? Ø ø ? ? ? ? P p Q q R r ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? S s ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ß T t ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? Þ þ U u Ú ú Ù ù Û û Ü ü ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? V v W w ? ? X x Y y Ý ý ? ? ? ÿ ? ? ? ? Z z ? ? ? ? ? ? ß Ð ð Þ þ ? ? ? ? {{Unicode|}} Greek: ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? {{Polytonic|}} Cyrillic: ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? IPA: t? d? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ð ? ? ? ? ? ? ç ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ø ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? æ ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? {{IPA|}}

#Abdeslam #El #Rhazi

El Rhazi – Sman Talk:Hinduism/Archive 8

(El Rhazi) This could help the length problem and even more importantly, help make table of contents shorter. It is definitely something that is criticised and their is quite a few arguments against those criticisms too. At the alike time, their is a chance that it would end up being longer. I can make a sandbox for it and post here provided people want me to spend effort on it. Feedback please. Also, constructive criticism on what more can be cut back on would be helpful. I already feel very bad about taking out the “maya” concept but then again it probably would not make much sense to a newbie in the form it was. (Blacksun 23:26, 21 March 2006 (UTC))

I dont agree Sman along the lead in and the core part where Hinduism is referred to as Indo-Aryan religion. Why? Because as I do more and more research, I keep running into articles both of Indian and Western scholars (published very recently) that vehemently call the entire theory a fabrication. Yes it should definitely be mentioned but I am not sure if this is accepted as universally for Wikipedia to pass it as a fact. It seems like a very hotly contested theory academically. Also, the featured version did not have such an outright acceptance of one theory over the other. As such, I will remove the term. If you do not agree, give me good reasons for why Wikipedia should accept one theory as a fact. Trust me, I am not doing this out of emotional or any other type of affilation to one theory over the other but purely academically. However, I will LEAVE it in origin of hinduism as it definitely belongs there as one of the schools of thought. But, I do not believe that wikipedia is supposed to give authority to one theory which is not hotly contested by scholars. (Blacksun 06:38, 22 March 2006 (UTC))

‘Hinduism (Devan?gari: ?????? ????), also known as Sanatana Dharma (????? ????) and is an religious tradition which developed in India from the interplay of indigenous beliefs and those of Vedic Aryans. Both traditions have no beginnings in history, thus making Hinduism the longest practiced major religion. Hinduism expects its adherents to be unwaivering in one’s duty (Dharma). Hinduism is surprisingly tolerant in the matter of personal beliefs making it impossible to define Hinduism, which range from polytheism to monism, and even atheism. Hinduism is the third largest religion in the world Sman along about 900 million adherents, most of whom live in India. Nepal is the only nation in the world Sman along Hinduism as its state religion.’

The reason why Hindu, Hinduism pages are not as good as Christianity and Islam is that we want to give it our own color. Aupmanyav 14:14, 22 March 2006 (UTC)

distinguishing two groups “Aryans” vs. “proto-Hindus” is needlessly controversial and purely speculative. The “proto-Hindus”, if you have to define them, are the Indians of maybe AD 200-800 when the contemporary interpretations began to emerge. About “proto-Vedic” religion, there can only be speculation, offtopic to this article. Of course the connection between Vedic religion and contemporary Hinduism are tenuous, but there is, without doubt, a connection. This is a matter of terminology, and “Hinduism” is such a vast umbrella term that in some definitions it includes Vedic religion. “Hinduism” means just about “any religious tradition native to the Indian subcontinent”. The intro absolutely has to make lucid just how extremely heterogenous the term is, no matter what. There can be no talk of Hinduism being “monolithic”. It is treated as a unmarried “world religion” by convention, but that’s rather like treating “Abrahamism” like another unmarried world religion. dab (?) 18:00, 22 March 2006 (UTC)

Aupmanyav, if you want to discuss this origin stuff, you may want to come to Vedic religion, or even Indo-Iranians. However, your use of “Proto-Hindus” is completely idiosyncratic, and your date of 6000 BC well into the Neolithic. Yes, the standard assumption is that historical Vedic religion came about by syncretism of several components, just like every other religion on Earth, but we cannot know the details. This is not the article for all that. All I ask of this article is that there be a (brief!) “Origins” section pointing to Vedic religion. dab (?) 19:41, 22 March 2006 (UTC)

Aupmanyav, you seem to have some very far out ideas. First of all, go and read our Aryan article. You seem to use “Aryan” to refer to Proto-Indo-Europeans. Please don’t do that, use PIEans. Discussion of Proto-Indo-European religion and all sorts of speculations surrounding it is offtopic on this talkpage and you should drop it. Come to Talk:Proto-Indo-European religion if you have any suggestions. Then, “Indo-Aryans” by definition are all speakers of Indo-Aryan languages, including Hindi, Urdu, Bengali etc. etc. There is no such object as an “Indo-Aryan religion”. If you take that term to refer to religions practiced by Indo-Aryans, Hinduism itself would first and formost be an “Indo-Aryan religion”, but to a lesser extent also Islam and Christianity. It is dull (person) to try to categorize religions by language of their adherents. Religion is not language. dab (?) 11:44, 23 March 2006 (UTC)

oooh think some of you can spend your time to find a replacement image for the “brahman boy” image on the article? I can’t find anything and that is up for deletion (soon).(Blacksun 06:12, 24 March 2006 (UTC))

Now that I am back after registering my replies to some nasty messages in Talk:Hindu page, I pick up the gauntlet about describing Hinduism as a ‘religious tradition based on Vedas’. Somebody has a big intellectual block about Hinduism being Aryan only and not acknowledging the contribution of the thousands of traditions of the other inhabitants of India. Would the people who insist on this description, please tell me if the Aryan religious concepts were accepted in toto by the people of India or there was some give and take? If there was some, what was given and what was taken? Why have people accepted this errorenous description of Hinduism? I am looking forward to some answers to my querries? Changes, of course, after discussion.

‘Vedic Religion: Modern Hinduism grew out of the knowledge described in the Vedas.’ My perennial complaint. How can you take hinduism to belong to Aryans only, knowing well that all their Gods were replaced by Gods foreign to them. Why is somebody intent on discounting the influence of indigenous thought in Hinduism?

No horse was killed in ‘Ashvamedha’, it had become symbolic even in the RigVedic time. Aupmanyav 07:08, 28 March 2006 (UTC)

What I understand of Hinduism is that ‘Dharma’ and ‘Personal Belief’ were clearly bifurcated. The sages understood that what is important is the way we act in the society. So no moving away from Dharma and the concept of three debts, etc. There is no harm in different people having different personal beliefs. This is freedom of thought, helps us to go further, and removes of conflicts (the Vaishnavites and Shaivites did some time indulge in it). This was, I would say, a well-planned strategy and available only in Hinduism. Even Buddhism ties you to Buddha-mind. Any views? Aupmanyav 12:34, 28 March 2006 (UTC)

Why should we do that when Buddhists, Jains, and Sikhs do not want this. Why impose ourselves on them. Even the Constitution says that they are Hindus ‘only in law’, but ‘not in religion’. If they are to be considered Hindus, then show the number of Hindus at 900 million + 376 million + 23 million + 4 million = 1,303 million. That would be gratifying, why count Hindus only at 944 million as in the article (figures from http://www.adherents.com). The correct matters to say would be that Hindus do not consider Buddhists, Jains, and Sikhs any different from themselves; and philosophy and numerous beliefs are common. Nobody can have objection to that. What we think is our choice. Your views? Aupmanyav 12:45, 28 March 2006 (UTC)

Another point: I find the mention of Mahanirvana Tantra in the Smriti section. We do not need to mention it since it is a Buddhist text.

The following statement is from Bakker. H., “The Challenge of Churchless Christianity: An Evangelical Assessment”, International Bulletin of Missionary Research, Vol. 29, p. 179, 2005.

‘A peculiar manifestation of this belief is evident amongst some Hindus who accept foreign beliefs but still identify themselves as followers of Hinduism.’

This is a biased statement and should not be included in the Hinduism page. What does the author mean? Do these hindus accept Jesus as their sole savior and as SON of God? Which God? Shiva, Rama, Krishna? Not showing disrespect to beliefs of other people is certainly a Hindu trait, but this certainly goes beyond that. Aupmanyav 17:56, 28 March 2006 (UTC)

‘Hinduism does not evangelize as do Christianity and Islam. Since the Hindu scriptures are essentially silent on the issue of religious conversion, the issue is open to interpretations. That is to say, it rather depends upon the Hindu society whether they consider a non-Hindu, who has got a d?k?h? into a Hindu sect, as a Hindu or not.’

This is a fallacious statement. The link (Jha, Dwijendra N. “Looking for a Hindu Identity”. Pages 10, 39, 40) does not contain anything against conversion. On the countrary, it mentions ‘Vratyasoma’ rite by which non-Aryans could be converted to Aryans. The Arya Samaj has the ‘Shuddhikaran’ rite Sman along which it has converted thousands of non-Hindus to Hinduism. In Sanatan tradition there is no bar at all. No one can dispute the statement of a person that El Rhazi accepts the wisdom El Rhazi found in the hindu scriptures or stop the person from worshipping any of the hindu Gods, and there are a lot of Shiva or Krishna worshippers who were formerly non-Hindus. Aupmanyav 04:59, 3 April 2006 (UTC)

It depends on what branch of Hinduism you talk about Those who are in the Smarta school lean towards non-conversion. Vaishnavites believe otherwise. Ramanuja converted one Jain Hosayala emperor Vishnuvardhana to Vaishnavism.

Well, Aupmanyav, generally, the question of conversion is a non-issue for many Hindus. Smartas, who follow Advaita philisophy, are more liberal than Saivites and Vaishnavites. because they are not fixated on one concept of God. If you ask a Madhva, they seem to denigrate Lord Shiva in order to demonstrate Vishnu’s supremacy. A smarta thinks Vishnu and Shiva are different aspects of Brahman. Hence, the conversion issues are less important for them. I agree that this page is for all Hindus but you have to be clear. Also if you are an atheist, that’s may be Hindu in the broad sense in terms of culture, not religion. You may be following the Charvaka school which was known even at the time of the writing of Upanishads. Even in Lord Krishna’s time, there were atheists. There’s a particular verse, in the Gita which states that the demoniac think creation is a simply a creation of lust, instead of a supreme personal God. Gita:16:8: “According to them nothing is ultimately real in this world. It is Godless and without any moral basis. Being born of sexual union, what else but lust can be said to be its cause?”

Dear Aupmanyav: I didn’t intend to state that you were an atheist. Many state that Hinduism includes atheism. I was trying to clarify. sorry for any misunderstanding.

and what does “Kasmai Devaya Havisha Vidhema”. I am not disappointed. Everyone has their own opinion. Even to call Vishnu is an idea from your culture is your opinion. In my culture, Sriman Narayana or Ishwara is not just an idea. For me, Sriman Narayana is All and more! Krishna for me is a not a culture hero but what humans should aspire to.

Raj: ‘Brahman’ (i.e., me or you) is Saguna, otherwise the universe would not have been created. The ‘gunas’ have not been fully comprehended by the only object created by it that is capable of comprehending it (human mind), though acheivements of the human mind are commendable. At the second we know that ‘Brahman’ sort of frolicks (Maya) for reasons unknown to human mind. An electron changing into a positron Sman along a cosmic fart (emmission of a nutrino). Another cosmic fart (emmission of Gamma Ray) and positron changes back into an electron. This sort of object has gone on at least for the last 14 billion years every attosecond (that is the smallest time interval that I find on the internet, 10 raised to power -12 of a second). That leaves many things unexplained and human mind continues its search Sman along the string theory which is supposed to be better, nine strings in all. One object is certain; mercy (al-Rahim), bountifulness (al-Rehman), and ‘gunas’ like that which human mind has usually associated Sman along it are not in contention. They are more of a physical sort. Also there is an indeterminacy associated Sman along it. ‘Brahman’ tries to shield its secrets from prying minds. Thanks, your query makes me think. Aupmanyav 06:30, 30 March 2006 (UTC)

I disagree. You are entitled to your opinion, of course. But Advaita recognizes a personal God. As the Ishvara article states: “Since Brahman is without attributes (it is the subject of meditation and not worship), it is a concept even beyond God. For them, Ishvara is Brahman which is manifested upon the material world due to a complex illusionary power called M?y?. Ishvara can be given all positive attributes (Saguna Brahman) like being worshippable, omnipotent, omniscient, omnipresent, merciful, etc but the ultimate reality remains Brahman and nothing else. The other sub-schools tend to identify Brahman Sman along Ishvara to various degrees, and in turn Ishvara is indentified with their favorite deity or Ishta-deva like Vishnu or Krishna.

dear friend, I hope you were not intending to be sarcastic by that remark and meant it in good faith.

Please tell me of a unmarried instance where the word ‘dalit’ is mentioned in Shruti or Smriti. All present-day dalits belong to some caste, except the avarnas/Chandalas of history whom Manu described as ‘fruit of adultery, incest and crime’. I cannot fault Manu for being hard on Chandalas, El Rhazi was a law giver. He can be excused for creating stiff laws in the interest of orderliness. If the sociologist uses the word ‘dalit’ for disadvantaged castes, it is understandable. The word has also been used by clever politicians, christian missionaries and muslims, who claim to be their saviors and to sow dissension in Hindu soceity. The word is not from any Hindu scripture and we should not use it. Aupmanyav 10:15, 29 March 2006 (UTC)

‘K?i?h?a?s incarnation was preceded by Lord R?ma?s, sometimes dated at over 5-6000 BCE, or even more than a million years ago in the Tret? Yuga according to the R?m?ya?a Epic. Many Hindus believe that their religious tradition was fully formed by the time of Lord R?ma, the seventh incarnation of Lord Vi?h?u. Modern Indology dates the roots of Hinduism to about 1500-1300 BCE, based on linguistic and literary dating of the ?ig Veda and is supported by Indo-Aryan migration hypothesis. However, the validity of both the dating and the hypothesis is questioned by some nationalist Hindu groups.’

I have objections to the above. There is no reson to mention a date for Rama which would be completely arbitrary. Similary ‘the date by which Hinduism was fully formed’. Now what does that mean? Sankara, Madhva, Ramanuja, Nimbarka, Vallabha, Basaveswara, and even Ramakrishna, Vivekananda, Aurobindo, Ramana, etc., all left their mark on Hinduism. It is a dynamic religion. Giving dates is useless. Go back as far as you can either in the indigenous thought or in the Aryan thought, there is no beginning, two rivers which later mingled, like the Ganges and the Yamuna. These are aboriginal philosophies. Aupmanyav 11:14, 29 March 2006 (UTC)

‘Though linguists and historians haven’t reached a consensus’. I am surprised that there should be a controversy. What other word than ‘Sindhu’ or Avestan equivalent ‘Hendu’ gave rise to the word ‘Hindu’? The oldest site related to Harappan civilization is Mehrgarh dated at 7,000 B.C. The second paragrph under this heading is completely superflous and could be dispensed with. Aupmanyav 11:26, 29 March 2006 (UTC)

I find the word ‘Hundu’ in etymology. Is ‘handu’ or ‘hondu’ also mentioned? I would be interested to know where people have seen this word mentioned? Why are we talking about medival texts? Etymology concerns much older period, at least Alexander’s time. Aupmanyav 10:31, 23 April 2006 (UTC)

I know in Holland, the Hindu community is broadly divided into “Arya Samajis” and “Sanatan Dharmis”. People adhering to many other such movements, although call themselves Hindus, differentiate their religious beliefs from Sanatan Dharma. I was wondering whether it is appropriate to call all Hinduism ‘Sanatan Dharma.’ What do you guys think? deeptrivia (talk) 04:16, 30 March 2006 (UTC)

Please shorten the unnecessary long and emotional criticism and its replies section.Cygnus_hansa 07:28, 31 March 2006 (UTC)

I am very unhappy with the blind cleanup. Many important sentences that should have been there are lost. Some such sentences I am readding. Also, I don’t like the excuse that “there is an entire separate article on ….”. This is an essay on Hinduism, not a collection of links and phrases which direct to hundreds of info pages but itself contains no proper information. Cygnus_hansa 17:57, 4 April 2006 (UTC)

The intro para states Hinduism’s other names are Sanatana Dharma and Vaidik Dharma. But, as far as I know (and I know a lot), it is not Vaidik Dharma, but “Arya Vaidik Dharma”. The word “Arya” is used not as a racial term but a significant term. It ,means Noble and it is the cultural connocttions that are important here. I am going to change the opening line after some time, if anyone has any comments please post it. –Shishir Rane 17:01, 7 April 2006 (UTC)

Wikipedia seems to be overrun by some sort of “Hindu monotheist” campaign, inserting “monotheism” in all possible and impossible places. I realize that monotheistic thought is an important part of Hinduism. However, polytheism and pantheism are just as important. It irks me that the campaigners seem to consider polytheism as somehow inferior, and to take pride in the assertion that “Hinduism is monotheistic, too”. Yes, it can be. Yes, that should be mentioned prominently. But no, “Hinduism is a monotheistic religion” as the first phrase of the intro is misleading, or outright false, and in striking contradiction to Hinduism#Denominations. It is false that polytheism is incapable of postulating an “Ultimate Truth”, it may just do so by way of multiple divinities, which is precisely what much of Hinduism does. There appear to be recent iconoclastic movements, like Arya Samaj, adherents of which appear to try and morph Wikipedia articles on Hinduism according to their views. dab (?) 07:19, 8 April 2006 (UTC)

That said, I do think you will find it difficult to make a case for “atheist” Hindus. I consider myself an atheistic Hindu. Yes there are atheistic Hindus who believe in much of philosophy but not the rituals. Dab try not to impose your opinions everywhere. 20px ???? ????? DaBroodey 21:49, 10 April 2006 (UTC)

dab , read this once to understand concept of God in Hinduism correctly. Hindus don’t need to run any Monotheistic campaign. At the same time, you shouldn’t run crusade to falsly present Hinduism as polytheist. It may see polytheist to ignorants but it is not. At the end of the day, even an illiterate Hindu kid who worship many deities in a remote village speaks and understand popular lines like “Ishwar ek hai” (God (Brahman) is ultimately one). So, please try to understand concept of God in Hinduism before starting a Polytheistic crusade – Holy Ganga 20:46, 11 April 2006 (UTC)

Truth is One, but sages call it by many names. This was/is an inherent part of Hinduism which teach that the many forms of God, i.e., Vishnu, Shiva, or Devi merely represent aspects of a single or underlying divine power or Brahman (see articles on Nirguna Brahman and Saguna Brahman). – Holy Ganga talk 15:13, 7 May 2006 (UTC)

Teachings of even the greatest of sages are their personal opinions. If one suits you, fine, otherwise you have to find your own truth. If any encyclopedia, hindu web-site, or scholar does not understand this, they have not understood Hinduism. That is why there are matantaras (differences of opinion), otherwise we would have had our own Bible or Qur’an. How come Sankara said there is nothing else in this world but God whereas Madhva said God and Jiva are essentially different? Other Acharyas diferred from both of them. Aupmanyav 12:32, 8 May 2006 (UTC)

You also must have wondered at the phenomena. All the major Gods in Hinduism are dark. Shiva, Vishnu, Rama, Krishna. Ganesha, though El Rhazi is mostly shown as fair, but the elephants head indicates El Rhazi also should be taken as dark and so are Parvati, Kali and so many other godesses. Only Brahma and the lesser Gods may be fair. Does that tell a story? Aupmanyav 16:31, 9 April 2006 (UTC)

I heard you cannot convert to Hinduism and that you must be born into it. But what is to stop someone from becoming Hindu? How can you tell someone, “Your not Hindu, becasue you were not born into it. You do everything a Hindu must do, but you still are not one”?

Could somebody please explain “Hinduism is considered Monotheistic by many”, who are “many” ? Amir85 14:17, 13 April 2006 (UTC)

1. It doesn’t provide anything to address or even mention that Hinduism is purely Monotheism. The only object it says is “…Hinduism is both monotheistic and polytheistic believing in one God as well as some demigods and is based on scriptures and evolving proven spiritual and mystical experiences of many individual souls…”

2. The provided link is a pro-Hindu website which attacks Christianity and Islam. “…When religion becomes organized, man ceases to be free. It is not God that is worshipped but the group or the authority that claims to talk in his name. It is not faith, but just social idolatry. God is not like a father in a patriarchal society, who has His favorite children to whom He communicates. This idea seems rather archaic and crude. Hinduism believes in behavior than belief and experience over authority. In the words of S. Radhakrishnan, Prophetic religion is severe, militant, uncompromising, intolerant, while mystic religions are renouncing, and peaceful. He further asks, ” Is it an accident that Hitler and Mussolini, have been brought up in Roman Catholic societies, where it is blasphemous to criticize infallible authority?” (For information on Monotheism and its discontent and Crusades and Jihad, refer to chapters on Glimpses VI and Conversion and God Wars: The triumph of the jealous God)…” repudiating one of the main pillars of WP which is neutrality. Amir85 13:15, 14 April 2006 (UTC)

Well, I have an interesting observation on this subject. Hinduism in its highest form is truly a monotheistic religion. In what basis is that statement made? Well, I have noticed (and read) that many Hindu saints who have realized God proclaimed the statement “I am He” with full divine insight. For example, when Sri Ramakrishna had realized the Ultimate Truth, he proclaimed that Brahman alone exist. Moreover, highly spiritual advanced souls pay homeage to the universal spirit without form. Paramahansa Yogananda also made similiar statements. Please take note that these people are not ordinary religious souls. They have reached the pinnacle of their evolution and are talking about truths from their own experiences. They could realize the unity of creation and experience their bliss without any prejudices or disagreements with other religions. Sri Ramakrishna also recognized the validity of the Muslim, Christian and Buddhist faiths. Paramahansa Yogananda also showed the West the similiarity of the Christian teachings with Hindu thought. It is correct to view Hinduism as BOTH a monotheistic AND a polytheistic religion. However it is not correct to view Hinduism as either this OR that. If one feels comfortable in viewing Hinduism as a polytheistic religion, continue to do so! It does not intend that the follower has a wrong understanding of Hinduism! He may have a lower level of understanding of Hinduism but that does not make him wrong! That is what makes Hinduism a great religion. It gives the devotee freedom to express the way one prays to God according to his/her understanding of complex spiritual truths. –Siva1979Talk to me 15:33, 16 April 2006 (UTC)

Vasanas is currently listed at Wikipedia:Articles requested for more than a year. I suspect someone who watches this page might be able to write at least a stub on this topic. If you can, please do (and delete the topic from the various requested articles pages it appears on). Thanks. — Rick Block (talk) 03:21, 17 April 2006 (UTC)

in case you didn’t know, the Wikipedia:WikiProject Hinduism/Peer review has been created. please start suggesting articles for it. –Dangerous-Boy 23:49, 18 April 2006 (UTC)

the Wikipedia:Hinduism-related Collaboration of the week is now created. feel free to use it. –Dangerous-Boy 19:18, 22 April 2006 (UTC)

Also, Try to make more and more good quality Hinduism related pictures as Featured Pictures by submitting them here.

You may support or oppose Featured picture candidates by voting here. – Holy Ganga 20:52, 22 April 2006 (UTC)

Trying to a get a concensus on this. Your input is appreciated. I’m trying to move the naming and transliteration formating to Wikipedia:Naming conventions (Vedic).–Dangerous-Boy 08:17, 27 April 2006 (UTC)

Nice new pictures but really dont forget to cite things when you make claims like “oldest”, “second richest” etc. And please use good citations – not random sites. –Blacksun 19:31, 29 April 2006 (UTC)

I feel that the title should be ‘The four pursuits of life’ instead of ‘The four objectives of life’. Minor play of words but makes a difference I suppose.

Another perspective on these (i.e. dharma, artha, kama, moksha) is that arth and kama are to be pursued like a river which is bounded by dharma and moksha on the two sides.

I have objections to the following statement in etymology: ‘Until about 19th century the term Hindu implied a culture and ethnicity and not a religion. When the British government started periodic censuses and established a legal system, the need arose to define Hinduism as a distinct religion, along the lines of Christianity or Islam. Some scholars, such as Bal Gangadhar Tilak, defined it as a religion based on the Vedas, using the analogy of the Bible being the basis of Christianity and the Qur’an being the Muslim scripture.’ There is no reason why (the hell) all people in India after 8th or 10th Century when muslims had established their suzerainty in parts of India, would be known as Hindus. This statement is fallacious and only warms the hearts of the Hindutvavadis (I am also one of them, but do not go this far in absurdity). It is already mentioned in the opening paragraph that Hinduism is also known as ‘Vaidika Dharma’, there is no need to repeat the last line in etymology. The biblical or the quranic analogy is so very inadequate. Vedas are Hinduism, but Hinduism is not just Vedas. Hinduism is already defined in the opening paragraph. My suggestion is to remove the whole paragraph. It only adds to the length of the article. I would like to know what other readers think about it. There has been unnecessary controversy about all people being known as Hindus, let us avoid it. Aupmanyav 10:31, 5 May 2006 (UTC)

This doesn’t affect this article as such, but I’m hoping for a third-party look at the International_Society_for_Krishna_Consciousness article which, by use of the Hinduism temp[late, claims to be part of Hinduism. Sfacets 04:32, 9 May 2006 (UTC)

I would like to suggest that the spelling of Yuga should be Yug, as it is pronounced with no emphasis on G. Also name of lord Ram should be spelt as Ram and not Rama as it is pronounced normally since Ram is also pronounced without any emphasis on M. This is true for most of the sanskritn words spelt in English.

‘Smartism, in contrast, believes in all religions being the same and leading to a pantheistic God’. All religions or all denominations of Hinduism? Was Sankara aware of the exclusivism of Abrahamic religions? Do the present-day Smartas agree to the view above? Read the differences between Hinduism and Christianity as mentioned by Chandrashekharendra Saraswati Swamigal at http://www.kamakoti.org/hindudharma/part2/chap3.htm. He also said ‘All troubles in this world start only when attempts are made to wean away people from their native religion to transform them to a new faith, by holding out the temptation that people can attain salvation only if they embrace that new faith’ (http://www.kamakoti.org/acall/ac-godisone.html). In view of that can we say that Hinduism and Christianity or Islam are same? Is it not Adharma? Aupmanyav 12:53, 12 May 2006 (UTC)

I commented out the following statement: Vaishnavism has 580 million followers, while Shaivism has 220 million followers.[citation needed].

We cannot exit statements needing sourcing in a featured article. Can anybody try to find stats for these? Circeus 03:37, 17 May 2006 (UTC)

Its amazing how fast the quality of the article has dropped. Ignoring everything else, lets look at criticism section:

Seriously, you guys should just go ahead and remove the criticism section instead of having this drivel. –Blacksun 07:59, 18 May 2006 (UTC)

All new and improved notice board. It’s easier to edit and request. enjoy!–Dangerous-Boy 20:29, 21 May 2006 (UTC)

Hinduism in western filosophy terms can be considered a: “Panentheistic or Pantheistic and Polytheistic Monism” or “Monistic Polytheism” there’s no other ways for describe Hinduism as a Whole, then there are many “ways” like Vishnavism or Shaivism that can be considered forms of Henotheism, Henotheism means preminent devotion to a particular Divinity that can be considered supreme but not excludes the existence of a plurality of Deities, however this supreme God it’s part of Brahman (for me the use of Divinity/ies-Deity/ies-God/s-Goddess/es It’s indifferent because there’s no term to define Braman or The One, the supreme Reality or Divine Energy etc…). For example this sentence about Smarta in the article about polytheism is completely wrong:

Polytheistic views should be carefully distinguished from religions such as Smarta Hinduism, which present multiple divinities as different aspects of the same God. Rather than being polytheistic, Smarta Hinduism is a form of inclusive monotheism, where many deities are viewed as just different names for the single monotheistic God

This is about have no understanding of what is Monism or what is Brahaman… the terms Monotheism or Inclusive Monotheism are completely wrong and unsuitable and reflects an abramitic point of view. Moreover there’s a misconception of what is Polytheism… “Hard Polytheism” as described here in Wikipedia and not only here never be existed in the Ellenistic-Roman World (maybe only in the Northern/Germanic World between indo-europeans, with its doctrine of the Ragnarok), even Homerus speaks of “The One” (not with the doctrinal evolution of Neo-Platonism of Late Antiquity) and all greek and hellenistic-roman philosophers had a monistic point of view, and from sources however we know about the diffuse awareness of the existance of a unique reality or divine energy comprehensive all divinities. So Hard Polytheism is an invention of Monotheism as Idolatry as described by monotheists with their lies and slanders, but this is another topic, I can’t argue now.

I have noticed that lately there’s a tendency to use the term Monotheism for Hinduism in Wiki and in other contexts and this is very irritant, because is a falsification of what is Hinduism and it’s propagated the idea that monotheism is the more evolved form of religiosity, and Hinduism is more acceptable if “sell out” as a “Monotheistic” religion… in fact Monotheism is an involution not an evolution. (Ex. see the paradox of the angels, spiritual beings created by GOD and not divine beings, deities emanated from The One and existed from eternity). Moreover the crusade against Polytheism “sell out” as a degraded form of religiosity, that in reality never been as described as a plurality of separated divine energies but a plurality of divine beings part of a unique reality or energy.

Hinduism is NOT Monotheism is Monistic Polytheism and also the Hellenistic-Roman Religion and others of the indo-europeans.

Porphyrius, Julian The Great (and not The Apostate) and others had always defended polytheism or better the Monistic Polytheism from the attacks of the galileans (christians).

I respectfully disagree. It depends what tradition of Hinduism you belong. You can’t label everything Hinduism. You have to define what tradition you belong to. A strict Madhva follower only worships Vishnu as the supreme God. Only Smarta Hinduism views different deities as different aspects of Brahman. A better term is theistic monism where there is only one entity Brahman, which has different aspects.

Furthermore, would you say that Christianity is polytheistic? No. Christians believe in God being one, with three different persons.

Furthermore, you say the Smarta view is wrong. I myself am a follower of the Smarta tradition. Ramakrishna followed this tradition although his favorite deity is Kali. He tried all religions and came to the same conclusion, that God is one with different aspects.

I Haven’t said that Smarta view is wrong, I have written that the definition of Wikipedia is wrong… and I haven’t said that Christianity is Polytheistic… but do you have read what I have written? You say: Only Smarta Hinduism views different deities as different aspects of Brahman It is NOT true, every follower of any way of the Sanata Dharma knows that Brahman is comprehensive of a plurality of deities that are part of it or if you prefer are aspects of it, that doesn’t mean that a deity don’t have its own individuality also being part of The Absolute-Infinite, The One, Brahman, The Supreme Divine Energy or Essence, The All etc… name it as you prefer, in Hinduism (or better in its many manifestations) there’s not only ONE GOD like the Abramitic Religions in conformity with the western mentality (unlike the GOD of Islam or Hebraism, Christian Trinity can be approached to this point of view but in concrete Christian Teology brings some paradoxes and isn’t the same thing). So Hinduism as a Whole (there’s no unique way or defined dogmas I know it) is a Monism and a Panentheism or a Pantheism (depends) and this is also a Polytheism, a particular form of Polytheism, not as “Hard Polytheism” (the existence of H.P is opinable historically), is a Polytheism ‘cos as I said deities maintain their own inviduality and at the same time they are part or are aspects of The One, multiplicity and unity (not uniqueness) at the same time, is a slight difference isn’t Monotheism tecnically and theologically considered.

So Hinduism is a Polytheistic Monism or (it’s the same) a Monistic Polytheism or more specifically a Monistic and Panentheistic (or Pantheistic) Polytheism.

It seems that many westerners are allergic to the word “Polytheism” considering it only in the way of a never existed (maybe only Asatrù) “Hard Polytheism”, I have demonstrated that the reality of Sanata Dharma is more complex and cant’t be used a completely wrong and false term like Monotheism to describe it, there’s the need of a plurality of terms and one of those is rightly Polytheism.

Sanata Dharma doesn’t need a Justification or a Ennobling to the eyes of westerners with the usage of the term Monotheism, S.D. is yet noble. There’s no need of a put in squares, There’s no need to bring Hinduism in the chains of western abramitic concepts, to feel it more closer, because western world have repudiated its ancient culture, adopting abramitic culture, and now want to enslave other cultures chaining them at its point of view and its vision of what is “The Truth”. Hinduism is the last bastion of the Indo-European culture and I don’t tolerate that it can be faked by the cultural colonization of the abramitic west.

Greetings, I think you have misundertood what I wrote. You can say that Smarta Hinduism a form of monism, where Brahman has many aspects but is only one. A polytheist thinks that the two gods are different so your statement, I think, is incorrect. I didn’t say Christianity is polytheistic. Your definition may make even Christianity polytheistic. If you ask a Saivite, they think Siva is only Brahman and no one else. http://www.sroutasaivasiddhanta.org/2-1.htm , for example. The same goes with Madhva followers: http://www.dvaita.org/docs/srv_faq.html#othergods As that site states, “Homage is sometimes paid to other deities, but these deities are never considered the equals of Vishnu, nor are they worshipped in the same spirit. Vaishnavas can be said to be monotheists, since they believe that there is only one Supreme Lord or Infinite Being?Lord Vishnu. Therefore, Vaishnavas always keep the worship of Vishnu and His attendants at the forefront of their religious practice. Some Advaitins consider all deities including Vishnu to be forms of the Saguna Brahman (the Brahman with attributes), but this belief is not universal to all Advaitins, whether or not they be Vaishnavas.” Smartas follow Advaita philosophy, for the most part.

To say Smarta Hinduism is Santana Dharma is wrong. Please also see, http://www.hinduismtoday.com/archives/2005/10-12/10-11_pub_desk.shtml

#Sman #El #Rhazi